Crewe lot 129

Firstly not sure if this is the right place for this, so apology just in case.
Looking for a source of information on tender numbers for these locos when built.
The one I am researching ran with a Fowler tender from new up till 1959 when it received an all welded stanier tender from, possibly from an 8F.
The original stanier tender (all riveted?) was used on a member of Royal Scot class from what I have read in various books.
Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance, John

 

I'm not entirely sure what the question is but in loco terms Lot 129 were the Jubilees 5695 - 5742 built at Crewe from Period 4-36 to 13-36. 5695 - 5725 were attached to second hand Fowler tenders in no form of numerical order; 5726 received a Stanier tender 9130 and 5727 No. 9127. 5728 was given 9362 and then allocations were in order up 5737 with 9371. 5738 got 9066 and 5739 got 9065. 5740 was given Fowler 3926 (ex-6130); 5741 got 9125 and 5742 9128.

The allocation of tenders to these engines was a numerical quagmire. Irwell's 'Book of the Jubilees' has many details, but see also J.W.P. Rowledge and Brian Reed's 'The Stanier 4-6-0s of the LMS'.

 

Thanks for your response, appreciated.
I am looking at my final model engineering project, 1/8 scale 5698 Mars in crimson lake with a stanier tender. From your reply there is no way of even a best guess at the number of what the stanier tender would have been allocated if the Fowler type hadn't have been used.
I would assume it would have been a fully riveted type.
Will look at acquiring the listed publications.
Regards, John.

 

Now I know a bit more of what's wanted, more info is available. 5698 was married new to Fowler tender 4251 (ex-6166). This was changed to Stanier 9773 P/E 26/3/40, reverted to Fowler 3331 24/9/48, then a succession of Fowler (20,4/50), 4512 (28/8/54), 4470 (5/11/55) before Stanier 10206 (29/4/59). She had a Heavy Service repair 8/1/40 - 3/2/40 and Heavy General 21/5/41 - 25/6/41. She would have been repainted black at one of these, and if the HG would have run for a while in red with Stanier 9773.

 

That is fantastic, thank you so much 9773 it will be!

 

The RCTS Book of 'The Jubilee 4-6-0's' by Ray Townsin has a fair amount of detail about Jubilee tenders.

45698 appears to have received tender 4251 from Royal Scot 6166 when new 8.4.36. Another entry shows it as receiving 9773 on 20.3.40 and it's tender going to a new built 4F 4597. A later entry shows 45698 swapping with 48479 tenders 4470 and 10206.

Sorry if this muddies the waters but the RCTS book has far more detail than the Irwell book.

 

Thank you, will track a copy of this book down too.

 

Have just found another book on the Jubilees by Essery and Toms........Historical Locomotive Monographs, LMS Jubilees, which confirms my previous comments viz.....

45698 New 4251

and the tenders attached on the following dates....

1/1/44 9773

1/1/52 4470

1/1/60 1206

 

Thank you, another book for the list to buy.

 

I'm not sure where some of the data comes from but the most reliable comes from the LMS or BR in the Form of Engine Record Cards or Engine History Cards. The Railway had an army of clerks to keep these up to date, and while errors did occur, they're relatively few. One point is that dates are rarely actual dates but either Week Ending or Period Ending, the Periods being exactly four weeks long so thirteen Periods in a year.

The Irwell 'Book of...' series relies on the EHCs. I know this for certain, as I provided the EHCs when they did 'The Book of the Stanier 2-6-0s'.

 

Found an image of 5698 with stanier tender on Google search.
Looks like lined LMS black livery....