The two repatriated A4's

Dominion of Canada will probably never steam again. Been reading the new book about Mallard and the A4's. 60010 was withdrawn from traffic early as her boiler was condemned by BR so it's clearly not in great condition.

 

'Commonwealth of Australia' was. The terms offered by BR were 3,000 Stg (3,740 pounds Australian) plus costs of refurbishment from where it stood. All extras would have seen the price delivered to a site in NSW in excess of 20,000 pounds Australian which was quite steep in 1965.

 

I seem to recall my father in law giving a fairly similar story about DoNZ as well - it was offered, but the cost including transportation was too steep.

Tom

 

The locomotives were gifts from the UK nation to Canada & USA (no money changed hands).
To sell them on would be an affront to the UK and an international diplomatic incident.

The society looking after 60007 would welcome further financial help and volunteers , lets help the locomotives we already have.

 

Well spoken houghtonga like you say gifts from UK to USA & Canada for the war effort they gave to us and we must remember this and for the fallen heroes then and Now,and all the county's that gave help to us during the war, REMEMBER THIS AND THE LESS WE FOGET A MEN. FISH7373 81C

 

Couldn't agree more Anthony. Sometimes we seem to lose sight of the fact that as far as I know we have the only NATIONAL RAILWAY MUSEUM in the world that is funded by the government (that is by the taxpayer). So please have a bit of thought for other countries preservation organisations who rely solely on voluntary contributions and a volunteer workforce.
I recently met a couple of American enthusiasts on one of our trains and they were completely blown away by the fact that we had an NRM funded by the state. I might also add they had also visited a couple of our preserved lines and found them to be excellent too. Throw in the experience of double headed steam on the mainline. And they were explaining just how fragmented and small their preservation scene is compared to ours and the funding difficulties they have in just preserving loco's let alone running them anywhere. So I can understand when one of them remarked "You Brits don't know how lucky you are to have all this going on."

 

Have to agree Saltydog -- the comment about not knowing how lucky you are -- I m ex brit & miss the steam in the Uk -- we have no mainline steam at all at the moment here in Canada -Think how big this country is ! -- so hang on & appreciate anything you do have , because it can all change real quick... by the way can I start a livery dispute !!! just kidding ... cheers
Richard

 

Absolutely. When there's enough work for an A1, an A2, an A3, four A4s, three "Princess Coronations," two "Princesses," three "Kings," eight "Castles," a "Nelson," an "Arthur," two "Britannias," "Duke of Gloucester," ten MNs and twenty Bulleid light pacifics, oh, and a P2, then we can talk about being able to find enough work for two more A4s.

 

Given that much of the above is out of action and some of it probably for some time, I reckon another two A4s to fill the gaps would do nicely.

 

Maybe someone could convince Ian Riley to leave a black 5 alone for a bit and put his 35009 kit together!!

 

I, too, have read the piece in Heritage Railway and can only say that it is based on ignorance and bad manners. Both locos were given to their present owners and had they not accepted them, they would no longer exist. Eisenhower, particularly, has been extremely well cared for- when I saw saw it, 4 years ago, it was housed in an excellent, controlled-environment building alongside the Green Bay Museum's most prized exhibits. To say that the Americans have no interest in the A4 is also wide of the mark. In my experience, most Yanks are far more interested in and knowledgeable about Britain than we expect. Anyway, it's not a bad idea to show them that we can, or could, produce world-beating engineering! One of my memories of visiting Green Bay was seeing a wide-eyed American 8 year-old walking into the building and saying "Hey Mom, look at that beautiful engine, and look at them huge wheels!" He was looking at the A4, not the "Big Boy" standing next to it!
I have to admit that the situation at St. Constant was not quite so good. When I last saw DoC, 4 days before it left for the UK, it was housed in Exporail's secondary building and was subject to some damp and dust. That is not to say that it was ignored by the Canucks, just that with a very large and fascinating collection and limited accommodation and funding, they have had to make difficult choices. The A4 is not the only first-rate exhibit to be consigned to the secondary building, it also contains a CP "Selkirk" among several others, but that do's not mean that it is unappreciated. We should be grateful to the Americans and Canadians for letting us borrow them and send them back to continue acting as ambassadors for Britain.
I suppose that it was inevitable that the nutters would start to campaign to keep them here, but they are wrong for many reasons. Mr. Birley, pipe down or you will end up embarrassing us!

 

While it is just what people at the Museum had said about the loco's and now seeing the flack i seem to be getting for being honest, its a wonder why we didnt just leave them in their overseas museums, and not have brought them back here, lovingly painted them and cared for them, when really we could have left them alone as they was.
It makes me annoyed to raise issues on here now, when ok we all have opinions, but when they have to be restored just to go back home after makes me wonder why, but has now left me thinking to keep mouth shut in future

 

Hi Charterplan, It sounds like he was winding you all up. There is a comprehensive, and legally binding, contract between Exporail Montreal, the Wisconsin museum and the NRM, signed by all parties, that states the terms of the two year loan. To say " they did not know if they wanted them back." is utter nonsense. When D of C comes back to Canada it will be moved into the Angus pavilion, our Main Hall, which has (quiet expensive) year round climate control. It will be on display beside the other star locomotive in the collection, the C.P. Royal Hudson. As we speak, volunteers are putting the finishing touches to an idler car, which will have a knuckle coupler one end, and buffers, hook and three links couplings the other. This will be a great help when moving any of the three locos that are fitted with buffers and chains, though once D of C is ensconced in the Angus pavilion it probably wont be coming out any time soon. There seems to be in some quarters in the UK, a misconception that D of C was somehow unloved, unwanted, "rusted to the rails" etc, fuelled, I think, by sensational, "shock horror" reports of its condition in one of the monthly glossies. I would direct you to Anthony Coulls reply earlier in this thread, but I would also say this; if this locomotive had been unwanted and unloved it would have been shoved outside with the many other exhibits that could find no room under cover, and believe me, after 46 years of Canadian winters there would be very little of it left by now. There are Canadian loco's and rolling stock that have quiet literally rusted away for lack of cover, but D of C was always kept indoors. If it was unwanted, then why would we have asked BR for it in the first place? Yes the paint had become shabby and there was that very embarrassing dent, (I still cringe when I think about it), but that was all superficial and fundamentally, of the two, she was in far better condition. The Blue Crew at Shildon did a spectacular job on the restoration and I would have loved to have been there up in York to see all six A4's together, but it was not to be, but there will be one hell of a party when she return next year!!!!!
Cheers
Owd Sweedy.

 

Well I am certainly grateful to our Canadian friends for allowing us to borrow the loco and giving me the opportunity to see the only A4 of the 34 in BR stock to have avoided my tick in my Ian Allan ABC.

 

Did the same in Delson a few years back with 60010 , although I must admit I still need a few more A4 s for the ABC --- Have you seen 60141 ' Abbotsford ' hanging around anywhere? I know its an A1 --but now my hometown over here ........

 

Don't feel bad about it, charterplan. If you hadn't said it, others might not have had the opportunity to put the record straight. The person who ought to feel bad is the wally who spoke to you at York!
I'm delighted to read Owd Sweedy's post. Bringing the locos here has increased interest in them at home-to me, that alone makes the whole exercise worthwhile. The Angus Building is brilliant, I was looking forward to my next visit, but shall now do so with even greater anticipation!

 

Have also read the "Heritage Railway" piece today, and do wonder at the necessity of yet another A4 running here in the UK, we are fortunate to have what we have.
The article suggested some sort of trade for an S160, of which we have a number of seemingly unwanted engines, see the "NYMR clear-out" thread for a start.
I would have hardly thought an S160, however relevent over the pond, equates to an A4.

With respect, the Gent behind this supposed offer for the A4, could well direct his money to other main line or potential main line engines here in the UK.

 

Also - I agree they were a gift and should go home - but even if you did buy it, wouldn't it be one of the worst "sold as seen" purchases you could make? Its not like you could do an engineering assessment of what would be need to make it run again....

 

If there's someone desparate for an A4, and has the mega millions needed, why not learn from Scotsman..
Go out build a new one and it would probably be cheaper than Tornado, as the skill, tech, experience exists, and VAB acceptance may not be too hard as 6 A4's still exist to benchmark , as does Tornados super douper tender.

Silver Link recreation anyone ?

 

Gets my vote.