The Talyllyn in trouble ?

To be fair, when I mentioned "wonky" rolling stock, I really meant quirky and without the attractions of more modern stock that some deem important such as buffet, corridor connections etc - I never meant to imply uncomfortable. Certainly, on the occassions we have been to the TR, we have always sought out the Victorian carriages, partly for interest, partly for childhood memories of Agnes, Ruth, Lucy, Jemima and Beatrice!

Curiously, when we visited the FfR for the first time, we arrived about 20 minutes early and - on a long train of mixed rolling stock - made a beeline for a four wheeled carriage that looked suitably old, assuming (as was our experience on the Bluebell) that vintage stock fills up faster than modern stuff and therefore we wanted to "book" our place. Imagine our surprise when more or less no-one else got on, choosing instead the modern stuff! That was a bit of an eye-opener; I just assumed that if you are going on a heritage experience, you'd be interested in maxxing out on the heritage aspect!

And just to think about one more example: if London Underground had just run its steam specials, but had chosen suitable modern rolling stock rather than the vintage carriages, do you think that they would have receieved half the favourable comments they have done? Suitably marketed, "old" can beat "modern with all mod cons" any day, especially when the journey is only about 30 minutes each way with a break in the middle to stretch legs, visit amenties etc ...

Tom

 

Absolutely (and I really don't think I'm saying that just because of having been very involved in the Great Token Instrument Rewiring of the mid to late 1990s). I'm struggling to see what is potentially to be gained by reverting to staff and ticket, in a situation where the existing setup is well established and works well?

It's some years now since I was directly involved in TR S&T matters, but off the top of my head there have been bits and pieces of work done over the last few decades but nothing terribly major except Forestry Crossing. (Replacement of signal W5 including 'U' board; electric 'U' boards on A5 and A10; interior rewiring and standardisation of the token instruments; some additional "train approaching" buzzers to help the Blockmen). Pendre signalling was started and then stopped again.

I wonder what might usefully be improved?

Some feel there's an issue with the requirement for a Blockman on duty to cross passenger trains. Might some arrangement with weighted points at the loops, WHR style, offer an improvement? Potentially, though there would be installation costs. Can't see that that would require removing the EKT.

Abergynolwyn is more complex, electrically, than the rest of the railway's signalling put together. (It's still a very stripped back system, with neither train nor point detection, for example.) If there is to be a loop at Aber then visibility is always going to be the problem (due to the trees, curves and narrow ledge), which is why the signals were installed in the first place. But, even with colour lights, it does seem perhaps to suffer a bit in terms of reliability from lack of use.

Can't help thinking that if there was money available for investment in the S&T infrastructure the place to target it might be the 'T' rather than the 'S' - but then that could just be because I've never really got "into" strowger exchanges...

 

There is no way "we've always done it this way" will do, particularly for an organisation like the T.R. with a pressing need, inter alia, to reduce costs wherever it can. If there is a mid-section breakdown and Control has been notified by modern telecommunications, long before the time the (?) fireman has reached the nearest blockpost with the single line authority, someone can be there by car to take the authority to where it is needed. These days, no problem! Forty or fifty years ago relatively few volunteers had private transport, not so now. The only point I would concede is that difficulties arise if there are more than two train sets in use at a time. That, to my mind is the first economy measure to be taken.

I can't comment about about the NYMR save to observe that (a) the distances are longer (b) the tendency to "gold plate" is a universal human one and (c) few, if any, passengers would care if the line were operated by Wise's patent staff, Webb Thompson or Tyer's No. 7.

 

Yes, but I'm struggling to see where the big savings specifically in S&T spending on the TR are going to come from.

Errrm, yes. Taking the token to the nearest blockpost to deal with a breakdown hasn't been part of the TR rule book for some decades, thanks to the thoughtful provision years ago of telephone plug-in points at most 1/4 mileposts and, nowadays, mobile telephones. I think Steve may instead have been thinking more of the greater flexibility afforded by electric token systems both to change crossing points in the event of delay to one train, and to slot in engineering workings rather more easily than is possible with staff and ticket?

 

...we're going off track here !! A few quid saved here or there isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to the problem, which is how can the TR win back it's customers !!

 

Can't disagree. Slightly more serious suggestion, then, from someone who has necessarily gone from regular TR volunteer to less frequent visitor due to family pressures. Sort out the drainage in the (otherwise great) playground at Abergynolwyn, then keep on plugging the playground because it really is a wonderful asset.

 

and remove some of the pomposity from those who still have the opinion that all they have to do is pot a note up at the top of wharf drive and customers will come flocking in droves. Every customer has to be fought for and money taken from them with a smile but above all else they have to consider themselves to be getting value for money.

 

I am thinking principally of the longer term costs of maintaining a private telephone system. If local mobile or personal radio reception is adequate (hence an earlier question in this thread) then plug in points are obsolete. Divisible train staff can cope with works trains well enough provided they are properly organised, as I am sure they are on the T.R.

Oh yes it is! The operating cost of the T.R. is, to a large extent, in its direct control whereas the popularity of the Mid-Wales coast as a destination is not going to be influenced by any individual attraction. If some form of T.R. specific advertising campaign, or joint promotion with other attractions is felt to be useful then it will cost but will have no guarantee of success. This expenditure would have to be met by the railway and is another reason for casting a cold eye on operating department "nice to haves".

Everyone will be relieved to learn that this will be my last thoughts on this thread save to wish the T.R. all the best.

Paul H.

 

Watch this space for news on the playground, there are some nice changes afoot in that regard.

 

Cutting back on signalling equipement and/or reducing trains is not the way forward, in fact it's more like last rites ! No-one can doubt the need to be economical but not at the expense of taking the railways soul away. There are technical solutions for mixing old and new, but as i said before, the main problem is elsewhere.

 

Breaking my promise (sorry) not to post further on this topic I thought I would bracket these two previous postings together to illustrate how difficult it will be to get some form of consensus.

Sorry (again) to Baldwin but if you really want to know (you won't) I think simplification will actually bring back the soul of the Talyllyn.

Positively the last time

Paul H.

 

Its best to avoid the "one train a day" feeling, not good for the image !!

 

The TR has tried running empty trains up and down the Fathew Valley for a good few years now and found that it does nothing for passenger figures.

 

Apart from asking donations from members i hope the TR are doing the same for the general public and do tax free donations exist in Wales ?

 

Gift Aid can be applied to Donations from UK Tax Payers, info is here How You Can Help | Talyllyn Railway

 

Just clicking on the link and seeing the page makes it hard to believe the TR is in this situation, i wonder how many other railways are in the same situation but not saying anything.

 

I cant speak for other railways, What I can say on the TR is that we have an accountant who is adamant the TR is not 'in trouble' and merely had the foresight to make sure we don't get into trouble.

 

I hope my comment about "reasonable" wasn't thought to be slightly critical - I mean that the facilities (ie loos), certainly when I've visited, have been clean, working and more than adequate for the task! I can think of one or two other railways where the same cannot be said!

As far as improvements go, I think that the TR is in that slightly awkward situation of having been around for so long that you've basically covered most of the obvious bases, and it is then a matter of maintaining things, renewing when necessary and keeping things fresh. Which, I hasten to add, on my occasional visits seems to be the case. The website mentions the scope for walks at Dolgoch and up Nant Gwernol, which personally I find an attraction in themselves - more information about them might help (levels of difficulty, length of time, etc), and perhaps a railway sponsored web page that is aimed at the walker, but shows how the railway can be an added attraction for them (particularly when it's raining - which has been known to happen...). Please try to avoid reducing the train service too much, otherwise you wont be able to travel, walk and then get back to where you started from!

Steve B

 

I did wounder if a small part of the issue last season could be the graphic design 2012 leaflet?

There was a promotion on the cover, I think it was 'kids for a £1' or something like that, but the "£1" was in such large print that it gave the initial impression that the leaflet itself cost a pound!

I hasten to add that rest of the leaflet was to the usual high standards that you would expect for the TR, much better than the Brecon Mountain Railway which appears to have used the same photograph of the Jung 0-6-2WTT Graf Schwerin-Löwitz with a tender passing the Pontsticill reservoir tender first (!) for every season since 1985.

Brecon Mountain Railway | Days out in the UK | WideCow


Gareth

 

Thanks for that Steve, really helpful and we are always looking for suggestions from passengers on what to improve or what we can add to the railway so people get more from their experience. I'm going to take your suggestions to the railway's Marketing meeting next week.