Tyseley Single Wheeler.

So how about a re-recapitulate?

Between 1985 and 1990 an awful lot of work went into this project. I personally spent untold hours slaving over a hot drawing board after my employed work was over, producing well over a hundred drawings for all of the parts. The work actually went on until almost 1992 doing this in fact. Alongside this I and about 8 other individuals including a growing little chap called Alastair put a tremendous amount of effort in every Sunday for the best part of 4 years working on the construction of the tender and then the engine. As a point of interest 5 of those team members are still here, one died and a couple have moved on to other things as jobs and spare time changed.

It is a matter of recorded history that around 1990 the BRM ran into a patch of deep doo-doo, and was almost bankrupt. We had to completely change what we were doing and move into survival mode and it is also a matter of record that what we did was to develop and launch Drive a Loco on an unsuspecting world and the initial success of that left us less than no time to deal with anything else and that is when the Bloomer got put on the shelf. It was always an inevitability that the drive a loco craze would be taken up by preserved lines which could offer far better and longer experiences than we could and by 1993 the business began to wane and the then management of the museum unfortunately allowed costs to overrun receipts and the situation once more became rocky. At that time I had been involved in a very successful commercial project and on completion of that, I was able to elect to come in to Tyseley for 6 months to see if we could make the operation work, and jointly Michael Whitehouse and I came up with a rescue plan. Failing such a rescue the only other option was to put the whole lot in a box and move it.

We therefore set off once more in August 1994 with 3 men on 3 days a week and a plan which contrived to use the assets which we had at our disposal to trade out of the hole which we were in. You will imagine that this left no room whatsoever for discretionary projects including the Bloomer. The 6 months went by, things started to look a little better and there was no real escape plan so we carried on and gradually the business started to turn the corner and in time the inconceivable happened and we got back on to the main line. That was only achieved with hard work, the support of people like David Smith, and the custom from Andrew Naish with CanPac, and many of the growing number of customers which the revitalised Tyseley Loco Works started to attract.

It really was at this point that the Bloomer became a victim of our success with our main line activities. The point is that with the economy which we developed we had come to the conclusion that it was a bit pointless hiring other people's engines when we had our own, and the development of the Vintage Trains operation allowed us as Vintage Trains to become a significant TLW customer as we became able to afford to mend other of our own engines such as 5043 on the back of the VT operation. The more discerning among you will recognise that as 2 companies wholly owned by a registered charity, VT was spending the surplus with TLW to mend the charity's assets. Unfortunately for the Bloomer we have never been able to generate sufficient spare funds or indeed available man hours to successfully complete the Bloomer project. Many of you will hopefully recognise that running on the main line is not a cheap business. Whilst we have done little to broadcast the fact we did some while ago receive 2 bequests which were supplemented by funding from within TLW which has meant that the motion for the engine is considerably more advanced than it was in 1990 and a number of additional components were collected throughout the 90's with occasional additions thereafter. So it is not entirely fair to say that it stopped entirely. Quite simply we had no other option but to put it down and the continued survival of Tyseley as a whole has had to take priority over this locomotive.

Now I don't like that fact, nor does Michael Whitehouse and nor do Alastair, Dean, Steve, and others who all put a lot into it in the late 80's, but put quite simply if all of us had not done what we had to do Tyseley would not be here now and we had no option.

With regard to Mencken's claims, I can quite honestly declare that there is not one single member of the Bloomer team who I would not have responded to following an approach by letter or phone. Every member of that team knows where I am right now and where I have been for an average of far too many hours a week for the last 18 years. Had I received a piece of correspondance from a valued member of the team I would in all probability have phoned back rather than writing, and by the same token if this character posing as Mencken knew us so well, and had not received a response to his letter, why in hell didn't he ring me, as he would undoubtedly have possessed my phone number; in fact why didn't he ring in the first place?

The fact that it is our property is absolutely indisputable, but it goes further because despite the fact that we have had to lay it aside for 20 odd years, the loco is a part of our souls and we see no good reason to hand it over to anyone, partly because we seriously consider that however well it was completed it would never be completed in the manner which we have envisaged from the start, and I think that many of you who are familiar with our locomotives will understand what I mean by that. It is not Dog in Manger, simply a determination that we will do it one day the way that we want it done.

As for funds and other organisations, I can honestly say that in the last 18 years of my full time engagement here, I have not had one person who has contacted us to say that they would like to take over the project or to say that they would like to take charge of fund raising. FACT

It has been openly known for a long time that we were still open for funds but the simple truth is that the majority of enthusiast really aren't interested in locomotives which even thier great grandfather never saw, indeed all most seem to want to see is BR green or black, and even the LMS and GWR does not seem to be so popular if we look at the current liveries of loco's running on the main line. Certainly it is a bit of an indictment to realise that Rood Ashton Hall is actually the only loco currently on the main line with Great Western on the tender side, and the GWR was always held to be the most popular pre nationalisation railway!

Seriuosly Mencken if you are that concerned and you are what you say you are, stop grouching, tell us who you are, stop messing around claiming that you have written the letters which you allude to, and pick up the phone and get in contact - it's ever so easy. By a simple process of deduction if you are who I think you are, I am seriously disappointed in my judgment of you, but it won't stop me talking to you, too much water went under the bridge for this silliness to continue.

But at least everyone else now knows the bones of the situation - nothing hidden.

Regards
Bob

 

Thankyou Mr. Meanley for laying your Soul bare about the Bloomer. I wish you every success with it and that one day it will be completed to your exacting standards.

Mark

A second rate machinist, cnc operator and general dogsbody.

 

Well, that seems to have covered it...

 

A wonderfully open and honest post there Bob. Not many would be prepared to bare their soul quite like that.

 

Mr.Meanly has done the decent thing, over to you "Mencken".
We're waiting.

 

Fair play Bob.

Chris

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this comment.

Can I just lob in this thought, having no connection myself with any of the parties here. The "deal" between the Isle of Wight Steam Railway and the East Somerset Railway for a mutually beneficial exchange of equipment might act as a template for resolving the issue now under discussion. I am concerned with the large amount of capital tied up both in unrestored machinery and in uncompleted "newbuild" projects. Cruelly both can be thought of as forms of "elaborate scrap" and any means whereby their potential can be unlocked ought IMHO to be explored.

PH

 

While i can see the good intentions in this kind of sentiment, don't forget people do these things as their passion. As Bob has just shown they invest years of time and money to make these projects happen, and they become a major part of their lives. So for a group of people to come along and say "That's not good enough. We would have finished it ages ago." is somewhat cruel. It is all too easy to lose sight of why people dedicate their lives to railway preservation. In the end you can have all the engines you want, but they are pointless if you alienate all the people who invest, restore, and operate them.

Bob has quite clearly stated how the engine is part of his soul and how he wouldn't want anyone else to finish it off. So i think continuing to push the idea of another group taking it on is a bit disrespectful towards Bob and everyone at TLW after he has come on here to set the record straight.

Tim

 

So one possible scenario is...

elderly members who may have contributed in their retirement years, back in the 1980's may now be looking at this project still with a passion, that waiting 20 years later, in the twilight years, are seeing they are running out of years to see the project complete.
I can see why some may be frustrated by it and at such an age may not now be in a state to support such a project with the physical requirements to dedicate to fundraising etc.

Bob has gone above and beyond here in explaining..and has a pretty good idea who you are (my guess is he's right).
Mencken Your point has been noted and I don't think you'd get a better more heart felt or detailed explanation from anyone else..

So why not pick up the phone as Bob invited...I'm sure you have a lot to talk about.

As for a fundraising thought ....Tys has always been innovative with ideas so how about this.. TYS has to send out hundreds of letters with tickets for every railtour.. at what 50p per stamp 2nd class ?.. how about adding an optional line to the fare booking that says "A stamp for the bloomer".. if they chose to pay for the postage of the tickets.. put the money saved to the bloomer account ?.. This doesnt affect fundraising for 7029 at all or need time, cost or effort, and acts as a slow burn flame for the future.

 

I cannot speak for other contributors to this thread as I know none of them. Myself, I have no wish to be "cruel" or "disrespectful" to anyone involved with the "Bloomer"and I really don't think I have been.

None of us know how long we have got or, more to the point, exactly when we will kick the proverbial. From what I gather, the owners of the Ivatts which went to the IOW had such considerations in mind when they transferred their locos to the Island. It has turned out far better than could be imagined with one Ivatt tank being worked upon and, as a result of the "deal" with the ESR, the tender loco. is being attended to as well. In addition the IOWSR has acquired its long desired Stroudley E1 and will reboiler it.

Without these two developments it is unlikely that any of these machines stood much chance of running again, certainly not in the short or medium term. Now the likelihood of this happening is strong.

If, for whatever reason, we are unable to devote enough attention to a project to bring it to completion in the forseable future, why not negotiate with a trusted person who can? Sufficient safeguards could be built into any agreement.

 

hypothetically, if a deal similar to the IOWSR/ESR one were to happen with the bloomer, is there really anything out there that tyseley would want in exchange?

 

It would not be straightforward but could involve unrestored locomotives to be utilised as a source of spares, machine tools or anything else of value, singly or as a group of items. There is so much capital tied up in the heritage railway business doing little or nothing which could be released by deals of this kind without money actually changing hands.

PH

 

The slightest criticism of Tyseley seems to be regarded in some quarters as the ultimate, unforgivable sin. The feelings of relief expressed after this "soul-baring" are almost palpable even in Baltimore. And with challenges thrown at me like: "We're waiting!" we seem to be back in the school-yard.

This was an important project among people with a serious interest in locomotives and their history, but of course it is of no interest at all to those who want only to recapture their childhood in the so-called "glorious years" (ha!) of just before 1968. So the subject doesn't really concern them.

After a lot of activity in 1986-90 but little apparent progress for twenty years I'd given the Bloomer up - as a bad job and a lost cause. Then recently I suddenly received three colour-printed leaflets appealing for money for work on a GW 'Castle'. So I wondered if there was a similar appeal for the L&NW 'Bloomer'. Such an appeal would obviously interest a wider and different category of people.

So I did a bit of Googling, learned that the sad little ink-cartridge collection scheme had been ended, but no other news at all. Then I found this National Preservation site and was very interested to see two Bloomer threads, with people asking about the project. But with few and rather vague responses, and no properly organised fund.

When I suggested that such a fund be set up, or that the engine might possibly be finished elsewhere, it created outrage among the Tyseley acolytes and apologists, with vituperation and personal insults. And the witty suggestion that I go away and start a fund myself.

Well, I certainly won't be doing that. Long ago I may have been partly responsible for persuading others to donate and bequeath money to this project, but given its subsequent dreary history, I can now only feel guilty for having done so.

From having once been a serious subject, of interest far beyond Tyseley, which when finished and working would have been a sensation, it seems to have degenerated into a lightweight personal vanity project.

Which is sad.

 

Anyone got a brick wall for me to bang my head against?

 

Have you done anything positive to try to resolve your grievances? Have you given Mr. Meanley a ring? Or do you just enjoy rambling on here?
Not unreasonable questions I think, all it'll cost you is a phone call.

 

You may have to get in line, I fear...

 

Mencken,

it's unfair on the other members to have to lock both threads on the Bloomer, as some of us are interested in the project, no matter how long it takes.
I think its best to agree to disagree on some aspects, but Unless you have anything additional to add that contributes to the discussion, I would recommend you take your personal issues elsewhere.

 

The slightest criticism of Tyseley seems to be regarded in some quarters as the ultimate, unforgivable sin. The feelings of relief expressed after this "soul-baring" are almost palpable even in Baltimore. And with challenges thrown at me like: "We're waiting!" we seem to be back in the school-yard.
Well all I can say on this is, you are an intelligent person, probably more so than me, but so far I dont know who you are or exactly what your involvement with the 'Bloomer' was. Mr. Meanley has been above board and as far as I can tell, honest. He is, to me at least, a well respected Steam Engineer and that comes from someone who has nothing to do directly with the Railway Preservation world but does play with metal as a day job. So would you care to bare your soul now so I may be able to compare your story fairly with that of Mr.Meanley?

This was an important project among people with a serious interest in locomotives and their history, but of course it is of no interest at all to those who want only to recapture their childhood in the so-called "glorious years" (ha!) of just before 1968. So the subject doesn't really concern them.
What ever happens, unless Tyseley go bankrupt and the 'Bloomer' is cut up for scrap, it IS an important project and will be a legacy for others to pick up, if the current team are unable to finish it.
Point taken and agreed with to an extent. Having been brought up on a different BR with lots of lovely painted Victorian and Edwardian locos and stock, albeit not totally authentic, I too suffer the current BR trend.

When I suggested that such a fund be set up, or that the engine might possibly be finished elsewhere, it created outrage among the Tyseley acolytes and apologists, with vituperation and personal insults. And the witty suggestion that I go away and start a fund myself.
I think that has something to do with the way you have gone about it.

Well, I certainly won't be doing that. Long ago I may have been partly responsible for persuading others to donate and bequeath money to this project, but given its subsequent dreary history, I can now only feel guilty for having done so.
Well unfortunately, unless your fictitous or can read the future, you had no way of knowing how this would turn out and neither will any of us on current projects. Most are long term so there is always going to be changes along the way, some to your liking and others not.

From having once been a serious subject, of interest far beyond Tyseley, which when finished and working would have been a sensation, it seems to have degenerated into a lightweight personal vanity project.

Which is sad.
and thats Nasty!

Mencken, We both like Railway Preservation beyond the BR image and there are many like us out there. My own great concern at the moment is with this so called wonder agreement between the IOWSR and ESR. Yes its a big win for the ESR but I'm not so happy with the IOW side. Changing an historic and unique locomotive into a fake is not my idea of preservation but going all out with a rant at the moment, when all the details are not known, would solve nothing, just like your personal crusade on here. I understand where you are coming from and would applaud you, had you gone about it the right way.

Mark

 

Words (for once) fail me (almost)! This is the only way we are ever going to see an E1 operate again and it can be painted, numbered or named in any fashion we like for all this can be changed. Putting a Marsh lookalike boiler on her is a small price to pay, indeed no price at all. Why is it when someone proposes to do something, however sensible, there will be individuals shouting "No, No, No, No"?

Apart from the very small proportion of locos and carriages which can be housed in museum conditions all "preserved" equipment will have to work for its keep in future and there will be some distressing decisions to be made. This is one less such decision. Be grateful for this!
P.H.

 

There is an E1 / Ivatt class 2 thread and there is also a "What is preservation?" thread - one or the other would be a more suitable place to develop your argument, depending which way you want to go.

And yes, it's a free country. Personally I can't see the problem with either a Marsh boiler or renumbering, but I'd be interested to hear your counter argument - and indeed which of those two things (or something else) you disagree with: I'm not sure which.

Tom