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Engines Being Scrapped?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 69621, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. stan the man

    stan the man Member

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    Dont get funny with me pal.
     
  2. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Me? Funny? No thanks, there are enough comedians on here as it is! ;)
     
  3. stan the man

    stan the man Member

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    You said it.
     
  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    OK lets apply a bit of logic to this discussion; locomotive No 56046 has just been scrapped at EMR Kingbury. Why were you not bothered about that? After all it was British designed and built and served Britains railways for many years? Far more relevant than a loco that has no connection with Britain other than being here?
     
  5. 69621

    69621 New Member

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    I recall a converstaion i had many years ago with kim malyon and Les Fisher (who both brought one of the tank engines back to life when all the engines were stored near sudbury) that they were of the opinion that the engines could be re-gauged quite easily.

    Before the engine is consigned to the scrap heap, has anyone actually bothered to go and measure the bloody thing to see if if is possible? It can't be a complete impossibility, after all, it's only 3 1/2" - 1 1/4" both sides!!!!!
     
  6. SR-Simon

    SR-Simon New Member

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    I am afraid that MuzTrem's comments are sadly correct, there was even less interest in the Finnish coach than the loco. This was despite us making aware several groups, including the International Railway Pres Society (and Nene Valley). The only party who came to view this item was a local walkers group who wanted a cafe/display room on a former railway line. I highlighted that being wooden construction it was probably an easier project than a Mk1/2, but they dismissed this as it wasn't UK stock. Following this being advertised, and us urgently needing the space to get trains running, we had no other choice but for it to be broken up last month. Following this being broken up, it made the space for us to spend a week shifting the Mikado up to the gate (at our own cost, at a time when we have no fares income), in a bid to make it an easier "end on" loading, to try and assist it being saved... but this still awaits its fate...

    I am pleased to report that one person has come forward this morning and I have forwarded their email onto another gentleman who previously expressed an interest. As mentioned, I hope this demonstrates that EOR is supportive of it being saved... but time is of the essence...

    Simon, EOR
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's exactly the point: where are you going to put it? It is primarily a lack of space (rather than, say, a desire to cash in on the scrap value) that appears to be driving the EOR along this path.

    Anyway, it appears from Simon's most recent post that, just perhaps, there is a glimmer of a flicker of a glint of hope. Perhaps your best bet would be to offer your services to whatever that solution turns out to be?

    Tom
     
  8. stan the man

    stan the man Member

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    Read the message above yours!

    Stan
     
  9. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Very interesting. Has something of this nature been done elsewhere (i.e. 5ft to 4ft 8in or from a narrower gauge up)?
     
  10. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    I seem to recall that the diesel the Isle of Mann currently use was not originally exactly their gauge as it is European and hence will be 900mm or 1,000mm whereas IoMR is 914mm (or 3 foot as I am sure most prefer!). Can't just see what Viking was originally - if 900mm, probably classed as "near enough"!

    Regauging has been done by commerical railways - the LMS NCC used Jinties on 5' 3" - I have heard it said you just reversed the wheel centre on the axles (and retyred, obviously) but somehow doubt it!

    Steven
     
  11. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Firstly im no expert, But what does it entail, either new axles, if you cant machine the old ones, then whats the clearences in the frames and boxes going to be, were they designed with this in mind? now look at the cylinders , those relieve valves will have to come off if you want to rebuild to fit uk loading gauge so whats that, maybe new cylinders? not what i would call easy , whats needed is for an owner of one of these locos to come foreward and having done an examination explain if it can be done, and how
     
  12. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    I am not the owner of this loco. But just some comments on Frankenstein surgery
    Basically it's like the old joke about how do I get to such and such place. Well I would not start from here.
    Same with that loco, you would not want to start from what is there.
    What you would end up with would probably cost much more than restoration of a Barry wreck. Fine if there are enough people ready to get involved. First problem is that I don't see many willing to take on something that has such limted appeal and possibilities.
    Better to use that money on the 2 Tkh tanks which can be used here.
     
  13. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Regauging is all very well, but you've got to take loading gauge into account too. I'm not sure even the NVR could cope with the size of the Finnish loco in question.

    Anyways, back to the Tkhs...there must be a use for them somewhere?
     
  14. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    If you convert the Finnish engines to std and then start chopping them to fit the loading gauge.... At what point do you stop ?
    You would end up with a steam engine that may as well be Thomas ... It won't look like anything Finnish, British or historical...which then begs the question.. Why ?

    The tkh's can work in the UK.. Just not next to Network Rail... If it really bothered, then try new cylinders here. But in either case they can still pass as a usa tank, or a pkp tank.
     
  15. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    I fully agree with you, thats why im bemused that they(the Finnish) were even imported in the first place yes the TK tanks are worthy of saving , the other engine will end up being a bit of a white elephant
     
  16. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    For you Martin - copied from post 75. Full explanation for your perusal...

    The Finnish locos were not preserved in the truesest sense - they are now stored. They were brought over to the UK for a commercial venture and as such bought cheap on the understanding they could be reactivated quickly and cost effectively for a wild west theme park in the south west. One of the major promoters of this scheme was a chap I knew really well as he was a Bluebell volunteer and his wife worked with my mum! The locos themselves were part of the strategic reserve of Finland and had been properly mothballed when withdrawn. In the late eighties they were being disposed off and could be bought more or less ready to run for practically nothing. These were chosen for the venture over a UK engines as they were cheap as chips and wouldn't take much work to get going again. There was also bountiful supply of spares to be had. Unfortunately the scheme came to nothing and the locos and stock that had been imported were disposed off. All this was in the late eighties and since then these items have deteriorated and had parts lost as they have moved from one place to another.
     
  17. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Thank you very much kind sir, for a wild west theme park you say? given the way everything has worked out its very ironic:laugh:

    now unless someone somewhere has plans to relay some long dissued railway in 5Ft gauge and re bogie some coaches what possible future is there for any finnish loco in this country except to rust away
    saying that though it would be a unique railway , well in the uk anyway ok time for my medication :loco:
     
  18. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    The Russian FDs acquired by China were re-gauged to standard. This seems to have been achieved by shifting the tyres on the coupled wheels inwards. The trailing wheels were reversed (and presumably the tyres). How one can do it I guess depends on the various dimensions, including clearance between the wheel backs and the frames. Some of the Chinese DK2s (Russian YE) started off life as 5', were re-gauged to standard when the Chinese Eastern Railway was re-gauged, then back to 5' post-1949 for use on the Jining - Erlian line, then back to standard. Image of the wheels of FD 1653 at Baotou attached.
     

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  19. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Interesting info - thanks. I guess that saved them any problems with crankpins. Wonder if the re-positioned tyres gave any problems?
     
  20. Austerity

    Austerity Member

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    Yes very interesting huochemi - we also looked at shifting the Finnish locos tyres outwards for Irish use -but just too many problems. Total re-gauging to standard would be the best route. However as has been quite rightly pointed out, loading gauge would make operating these locos on the UK heritage railway system impossible. Even as it stands a TK 3 is some 8" wider than a Bulleid. For whatever reason they were brought into the country the fact is they are here and we are not in the business of scrapping heritage equipment regardless of its country of origin. To have their own dedicated line would be the only way to deploy them but I don't believe that the appetite would be there to promote one-it would have to be entrepreneur driven. So for the time being we try to store them as best as we can until an opportunity arises. One fully ticketed TK3 example operates in this country on a private site.
     

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