Engines Being Scrapped?

Move it for what? After its moved then what happens - continues to oxidise somewhere else? More moss forming on it. It doesn't have any use in this country, nobody wants it in Finland as there are numerous better examples. A quick end and some cash in the bank or let it slowly rot away irritating all around it. For goodness sake its a liability that won't ever run again as it has nowhere to run again. Why waste cash and time on it?

Ahhhh - an idea. Maybe somebody could contact the Remembrance Line...

 

Before the resumption of passenger services would be good, both so the loading procedure does not disrupt passengers or access to the station and also so any scrapes and scratches from the loading/move can be attended to.... )

 

I cant belive what Im reading...... this is supposed to be a preservation forum.

Stan

 

So:

1) The loco has little rarity value (there are apparently 19 others already preserved)
2) It has no utility in this country (it's the wrong gauge)
3) Its existence is known about in Finland (where potentially it would be useful) but no-one there seems to want to take it on.

Given the above, how exactly do you propose that it is preserved? And, given that resources (time, money, space) are limited across the whole heritage sector, what do you propose is sacrificed so as to save this loco? (because, the money, effort and space spent saving, storing and restoring this loco is by definition not available to save, store and restore something else - possibly more worthy).

Don't get me wrong - I'm just as much in favour of preservation as anyone else here. But preservation often means making choices between different calls on the available resources, and this is one such choice. Just saying "it must be saved" without saying how isn't making a choice, it's burying your head in the sand.

Tom

 

From one Simon to another - thank you for that. I'll send an email later today. I can't promise a huge amount of money (struggling myself!) but if there is someone out there who genuinely wants to save this engine, I'll throw a few notes into the tin.

Fair enough Simon, and may I apologise if my posts seemed to reflect badly on the EOR - never my intention.

 

Surprised no-one has come up with a scheme to butcher it into some long lost GW class that represents a huge hole in preservation...........

Wind up comments aside, once its gone, its gone. I have seen this from both sides and space for operational railways is a key issue but it is so much easier to cut something up than it is to replace it. Mind you, there are those "preservationists" who seem to delight in rubbishing other peoples hopes and wishes. Everything we do as preservationists is at odds with some previous person's considered logical decision that a loco/coach/wagon/line is of no further economic use; the hard bit is judging at what one the head needs to start ruling the heart and for how long (with apologies to NP poster whop rightly posed a similar question on another forum!)

(And, seriously, would any parts assist any new-builds - wheels may need new axles but would be cheaper than casting entirely new wheels that also need fitting to a new axle for example).

Steven

 

lets hear the leading dimensions of it and we can id any useful bits...

 

How about as a sectioned exhibit somewhere? Don't need the tender and you can defray a little cost with the bits you chuck away.

 

As a preservationist and one who is actively involved in the restoration of both road and rail going steam locos I am genuinely concerned at the throw away attitude some folks have towards this particular loco.

Lets not start the ball rolling by letting items getting scrapped as this would be the thin end of the wedge.

Im sure the likes of Alan Bloom would turn in their graves if they knew what was going.

Stan

 

put your hand in your pocket then..I'm not going to

 

Stan - I hear your anguish.

But what are your answers to these two practical questions:

1) If you don't scrap this loco, what do you propose happens to her? What's a sustainable future? (and that doesn't mean moving her to some airfield somewhere just to further disintegrate).
2) What about current rail vehciles - they are the heritage of tomorrow. So if you can't bear to see anything scrapped, are you suggesting that it would be better to try to preserve every single class 66 etc the moment it came out of service? Or do you agree (at least conceptually) that you can't preserve everything? If so, what makes this engine more significant than, say (in a few decades time) the 20th class 66 when 19 have already been preserved?

I'm just curious - several people in this thread seem horrified the Finnish loco may get scrapped, but I haven't heard an answer to those questions.

Tom

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, some others (not you) are being excessively callous.

There's a middle ground somewhere but it's taking some finding.

 

Uh huh the two nitty gritty questions.

The Finnish locos were not preserved in the truesest sense - they are now stored. They were brought over to the UK for a commercial venture and as such bought cheap on the understanding they could be reactivated quickly and cost effectively for a wild west theme park in the south west. One of the major promoters of this scheme was a chap I knew really well as he was a Bluebell volunteer and his wife worked with my mum! The locos themselves were part of the strategic reserve of Finland and had been properly mothballed when withdrawn. In the late eighties they were being disposed off and could be bought more or less ready to run for practically nothing. These were chosen for the venture over a UK engines as they were cheap as chips and wouldn't take much work to get going again. There was also bountiful supply of spares to be had. Unfortunately the scheme came to nothing and the locos and stock that had been imported were disposed off. All this was in the late eighties and since then these items have deteriorated and had parts lost as they have moved from one place to another.

They are not suitable for use on preserved railways over here at all being 5' gauge and to be honest only appeal to a fairly small number of enthusiasts. Should the one at EOR get moved then what? Storage in a farm yard somewhere losing more bits, getting rustier and slowly disintegrating? All this who say I'm a heretic please please please tell me what sustainable future these machines have in the UK? What to do with them? Nobody wants them, they aren't convertible without enormous cost (if at all) and even if you could who would want them then? Cant see them pulling into Bridgenorth or Horted Keynes somehow...

If they aren't wanted at home then for goodness sake dispose of them once and for all. If it isn't now it will be in twenty years when even more bits would have oxidised or gone missing inside the nearest caravan.

For those who don't like it rather than wring your hands come up with an idea that will allow the locos to be used or displayed for the common good and carry it out. Storage elsewhere doesn't count as a plan I'm afraid as that is only deferring the disposal date.

 

Ooo sir - from a moderator - suits you sir!

 

I can understand the wanting to be realistic, objective and so on and so forth, with regards this particular locomotive, but it's uncomfortable to read posts which go past the objective criticism of "what to do with it" and instead go into the realm of personal insults.

Feel free to say the locomotive should be scrapped; that is a legitimate view (not one I hold but a legitimate viewpoint all the same) but are the snipes and insults to other members and groups necessary...?

 

What are you going to do with it then? Nobody has yet answered the question.