No. 6000 King George V and the 1971 Return to steam at the NRM

My first post, Hello to all.
Not having the time to go to the NRM, York during the period of the 40th anniversary of the epic Return to Steam tour in 1971, can anyone let me know if the NRM did anything to recognise the importance of KGV's ground breaking efforts towards the breaking of the ban on mainline operations.
A shame if nothing was done.
Andy.

 

Sorry. We didn't. Small matter of time, limited resources and few people.

 

The milestone passed without fanfare. Frankly, and I have a feeling I'm in a minority with this opinion, but I feel that the preservation movement as a whole is rather obsessed with anniversaries - they are just dates. By all means celebrate 50th, 100th anniversaries etc., but 40th? Really? Does it matter? It's just a date at the end of the day, yes we should remember interesting dates as part of our history, but commemorating them is not always necessary. I get tired of opening the Beano and seeing ridiculous 'milestones' noted such as '39 years to the day since the last 45xx was within x miles of x'.

Take this one, for example. How important, in the history of railways, is it? It isn't a big milestone like a 50th, and as has been pointed out time and again the period 1968-71 was in fact anything but steam free, with various weird and wonderful movements out there. It wasn't a great change in railway technology, or management - what fanfare passed for the 50th anniversary of the birth of BR, I ask you?

To be sure, we should be proud and celebrate the achievement that is modern mainline steam, but I'd rather do that by smugly looking at uksteam.infos 'tours this week' in mid-August than by some needless event at the NRM, which frankly has much more important things to worry about, such as enticing families with much more interesting events (to them) such as what appeared to be a very successful model railway event held in the half term just gone.

Rant over! Obviously not directed just at Mr. Jeanes, to whom I wish no offence, or indeed anyone in particular.

 

You obviously need a course on "Merchandising" Special dates and anniversaries sell.

 

I would also presume that you are part of the "yoof" which benefits from the traumatic days of the early 1970s when every main line steam run marked another victory in the battle for recognition. The importance of 6000 and the "Cider Express" was to confirm the value of steam operation to the national network in terms of publicity and to show that locomotive owners were serious operators not simply over-grown kids seeking somewhere to "play with their trains".

Whilst you may be happy to celebrate the achievement that is modern mainline steam you need to both understand and appreciate the battles - such as the 6000 "Cider Express" - that opened the political doors during the 1970s which have resulted in your current celebration; those of us who recall those dark steamless days are happy to do so and point out the importance of celebrating it - an ever more important task given the recent hiatus over the Sir Lamiel / ECML / East Coast drama that is still being played out behind closed doors.

 

Like the Aug 11th re-run a few years back ?
That was well known about, cheaper than some other tours and required 4 engines and several LE movements...ran with many empty seats.

 

Thank you for your thoughts and replies, yes a shame and in some way not the ground breaking news that will shake the whole railway movement but in my opinion an important milestone overlooked. Sorry Jamie, but maybe plans for the 50th can be put in to the bigger picture. I can appreciate time and man power but any publicity is good publicity and where KGV is concerned, a forgotten monarch.

I open this to a wider question of:
Is KGV in the right museum?
MY thoughts being that Swindon is the home of the GWR and KGV is the pinnacle of the GWR both in design and stature, along with the progression of design of the four cylinder 4-6-0's i.e Star, Castle, King, which could all be exhibited under one roof as an evolution of Churchward's and Collet's work. Swindon would have my vote. Other than that, back into working order.

food for thought.

Andy

 

I've been called many things over the year, but never 'yoof' before - which I suppose I am being 22!

Whilst it was this particular anniversary that 'raised my ire' as it were, my previous post was aimed at anniversaries more generally, many of which, I think, are rather pointless - if you're going to commemorate an anniversary, do it in style, not by putting up a sign and sticking a headboard on a cold engine hundreds of miles from where events took place. What I mean to say is, aren't there better ways to celebrate an event than arbitrarily choosing a particular date (as does sometimes happen)? Surely the postponed Help for Heroes Run makes for a much more suitable commemoration, be it held 40 years to the day or 40 years, six months and eight days after the original run?

I appreciate that I am incredibly lucky to be able to see steam on the mainline, and much credit is due to those pioneers such as Peter Prior and Bernard Staite, and those who have followed such as the SVR in the 80s and 90s, Graeme Bunker and Jeremy Hoskings today, and all the others. Thank you, to all of them, for your tenacity, your investment, your belief. We shouldn't forget the pioneering days. But surely every time a steam loco turns a wheel on the mainline is a better memorial to men and events than some lowkey event?

Regarding the financial/marketing benefits of a commemoration - yes, a large scale celebration, such as the NRM's 2004 Festival will undoubtedly draw in the crowds who fortunately tend to bring their wallets and purses with them. But a small lowkey event of limited interest won't. Why of limited interest you ask? Well, naturally, mainline steam is incredibly important to a majority of enthusiasts; but is it to the general public? I'm always surprised how many people on stations who see a railtour go through have no idea that they could actually travel on one if they so wished - and those that do aren't interested in the epic struggle that got steam back on the mainline, they're interested in how nice the food is and that untouchable concept 'the romance of steam'. We should remember that, though important from a donating perspective, we are not the key market for any railway attraction, who have to apppeal to the masses to keep their heads above water. A special event commemorating the invention of the steam loco has popular appeal, a special event about the 1971 return to steam wouldn't, I think.

 

I seem to recall a price tag of around £150 for that - you have a strange idea of cheaper.

 

I agree with you Jamie - but I don't think it's just limited to railways. Society is obsessed with anniversaries and the more we go on, the worse it seems to get. Fair enough, as you say, 50s, 100s and the like, but when we see people obsessively watching the calendar then I think it gets a bit much.

An example - and I will probably be slated for sounding really heartless here - but every year we have to tread on eggshells round my mother-in-law on certain dates because it was X years since my father-in-law died. The date he died, his birthday, her birthday, every Christmas and so on. Of course people need to mourn, but what worries me about it is that by being so obsessed with the past, she's not moving on and so is wasting the rest of her own life away.

A bit of an extreme example, I know and, let's face it, the very nature of railway preservation is all about being obsessed (to a greater or lesser degree) with the past. But I think all the time that we worry about this and that anniversary, we're not letting go and moving forwards. Life is linear, not circular. Let's learn from the past by all means, but in a constructive way, not keep harping back to this date or that date.

I'm in my late 40s. And traumatic? Come on Fred - that's a bit strong. It's only railways, not exactly a matter of life and death, is it? :rolleyes1:

With reference to the Snowdon Mountain Railway thread, TBird, is that because you had to buy two seats? :wink:

 

How many tours do you get 4 locomotives in one day! One of which was its first mainline run since it did the same train 40 years earlier.. ?... Bristolian was 1 engine for £175, TOH similar price etc etc..
Hence this wasn't bad value, I would say excellant value.

 

Yes I can see both your views on anniversaries being used to promote almost any new or past events, but it think we need to grasp the fact that it is all about marketing and choice. We all have a love for these mobile kettles, be it green, red, black etc.. they take an enormous amount of capital to restore, maintain, repair, insure…… (just take the figures of Flying Scotsman). Where does the money come from? Private investors, railtours, society and club subscriptions, but more often than not it is from donations.
Be it a crown stay off ebay, for a castle (great idea by the way) or in a bucket at an event or railtour, no matter how small it is, it makes for the greater good. I have spent many hours on a sales stand selling all manner of dedicated merchandise, pin badges, rubbers, posters, postcard’s, you name it I have most probably sold it if it had some sort of representation of a locomotive or railway connotation and all to raise capital, be it for a tin of brasso or additions to funds for a new set of connecting rods, evry penny counts.
Now for the choice part, that’s up to the individual to attend, donate or assist or not to. So if it is a 2 year anniversary of X going to X it doesn’t really matter as long as it is viable financially and adds to the all important kitty.
I also wonder how many people actually contribute to the preservation movement, be it as a paying member, passenger or donation. Times are hard out there at the moment, both for the enthusiast and maintaining a steam locomotive and it is not getting any cheaper. It would be quite easy to stand in a field taking a video or picture without contributing. If we love railways that much, support what you can and enjoy it with a clear conscience.
Obviously I do not direct this to anyone in particular and I know the majority do above and beyond.

 

A picture (I think from the Bristol Evening Post) of KGV through Bristol 40 years ago:

http://simonwhittinghamphotography.zenfolio.com/p54241887

I was there but I had no film in my camera as so often happened in those days :-(

 

The comments about costs are absolutely correct - and that is where merchandising comes in.

Like it or not, but our chosen preservation activity does not deserve to survive more than any other in the same, or any other field - hence the need to ensure that any calls for donations are kept to the minimum and only used in extremis.

Its the little boy crying wolf syndrome - Appeal One may well succeed, but follow it up with appeals two and three and the impact is likely to be that much less and to receive comment about what happened to the proceeds of the last exercise.

Accordingly a track record of doing everything possible to maximise commercial revenue and reduce the calls for donations as a matter of goodwill is important - especially in times like these. That's where imagination, using things like anniversaries to create a selling point come in.

 

I passed through Yeovil Junction on my way to London this morning, and saw 6000 KGV in steam with a couple of coaches. It certainly surprised me.....can someone give us the background?

I can answer my own question: http://www.yeovilrailway.freeservers.com/how1.html and of course it was 6024 King Edward 1.....I was shocked to see anthing in steam there on a dull February Tuesday.