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The WHR, success or flop ?

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Baldwin, Aug 10, 2011.

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  1. belle1

    belle1 Part of the furniture Moderator

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    It's not suprising really though with the present weather! I'll bet you can hardly see the opposite end of the cob looking at that photo Andrew.

    Anyway thanks for the up to date info regarding passenger numbers and it looks as though you have had a good season so far. I wonder what the next question may be :tape2:

    Neil.
     
  2. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I've had several trips on the WHR this year, weekdays and weekends, rain and glorious sunshine, never seemed quiet to me, all trains well patronised. So it would seem that my random sampling showed the opposite to yours Mr Baldwin.
     
  3. steamingyorkshire

    steamingyorkshire Well-Known Member

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    When I was there yesterday, the first train out of Porthmadog to Caernarfon was packed! There were barely any empty seats! The Ffestiniog was the same... Very full indeed!
     
  4. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    And hopefully so !!
     
  5. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

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    We were on both WHR and FR railways 3 weeks ago, as part of a week touring the "Great Little Trains of Wales", both lines had very well filled trains. The WHR was definitely the highlight, our tour had a "reserved carriage" but the passenger numbers for the train were such that they had to ask us to let the general public into some of our spare seats.

    Success!
     
  6. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    So it seems that you based your hypothesis on the failure of the WHR on one days sample, hardly a well thought starting point for a serious discussion, but maybe sufficient an excuse to cast aspersions on the running and success of the WHR compared with FR.
     
  7. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    I feel you are being a little unfair to say the least. Firstly, i haven't formulated any opinions and secondly i based my question on not only on what i saw but of the German photo trip as well. Thirdly, yes it was a valid question with a very decent and informative reply which came from Mr Thomas. As far as any competition between the WHR and FR is concerned, that discussion will in my opinion, always be there simply as a by-product of the fact that the two railways are closely tied. To say that i was working on a hypothesis is jumping to conclusions far too quickly.
     
  8. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    It is such a big undertaking that I think it is much too early to judge. I also think those with different prejudices may have express different personal opinions of the WHR. That it has been rebuilt, it is running regularly and its ticket income exceeds the FR’s are undoubtedly successes. Those with a less generous view point though might point that the majority of trains still do not run through to Port and there is a limited service in terms of number of trains. I think they have to resolve that before in my opinion the WHR has really met the public transport remit it laid out in the early days.

    The real challenges in my view lie ahead, firstly in completing to a standard they would both terminuses, the facilities at Dinas, and Beddgelert and providing additional rolling stock. I am fairly sure they will succeed in raising the cash they need to complete provided their rich trustee continues to be as generous as he has been in the past. So that will be another tick in the success box.

    The other challenges may be more difficult to meet long term and include maintaining the railway to a high standard as time progresses as it is a long line to maintain when you rely to a greater or lesser extent on volunteers, providing a timetable which is attractive to passengers in terms of time, frequency of services, evens out the demand and does distract from the FR.

    I think that evening out demand may be particularly difficult without incentives due to the length of the line and journey and I think the WHR are already experiencing this and it may be that the original poster experienced in that the outward or return journey may be packed all or some of the way whilst the return is fairly empty for some or all of the way. I am sure the WHR are addressing this as it is not a particularly efficient way to run the services.

    I also have concerns a regular service may distract from the FR as if I was at Port and I had a choice of going to Beddgelert on the WHR or Tan y Bwlch/ Blaenau on the FR then all things being roughly equal I would choose Beddgelert.

    My view therefore is basically a success to date but ask me again in 5, 10 and 20 years time and I might have a different opinion
     
  9. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    "the outward or return journey may be packed all or some of the way whilst the return is fairly empty for some or all of the way"

    Yep. It's a real railway.

    "I also have concerns a regular service may distract from the FR "

    The money from both railways goes into the same bank account.
     
  10. SteveA

    SteveA Member

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    Staying at Beddgelert this week, took train to Caernarfon on Monday. Train was packed on way out and well filled on return (last train of the day). I think many lines would give their eye teeth for loadings like these in August. A regular complaint is the lack of through services to Porthmadog. Apparently until the FR extend Harbour station platforms there will be limted through services and only a few additional shuttles to Pont Croesor on Fridays and Sundays. Shame, because that detracts from the experience. I do think the line is currently a success, the proof will be in the number of repeat visitors.

    Steve A
     
  11. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    You *might*, but in your post you've said the line is a success, identified the improvements that will make it even more successful, and seen that it isnt achieving it at the expense of the FR. Surely even the most negative soul would see little cause for concern in that...

    Chris
     
  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Last Monday I was on Preston station when the annoucer said that the train in platform 4 was for Cleethorpes, now how many would want to travel from Preston to Cleethorpes? but never the less the train was full when it left. Anyone going all the way, I doubt it, but that's what happens on a real railway.
     
  13. Hunslets Finest

    Hunslets Finest Well-Known Member

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    When I visited in May with my family the older coaches were being towed round locked up. Although many like them, I am no fan of the modern FR/WHR stock with few drop lights, tables in front of windows, lack of traditional railway atmosphere etc so it was disappointing to have to travel a few coaches back not able to hear the engine properly. I presume they are being towed round to provide extra capacity when required but why not open them to allow people to get close to the engine and spread out a bit? To me it is like the Bluebell putting some nice old non corridor stock on a rake of mark 1s and locking them out.

    Also the other very small thing that I thought let the appearance of train down was the plastic headlamps. If electric lights are required why not use those already fitted to the engine? Otherwise I thought the railway was very good and hopefully will continue to develop.
     
  14. Roger Dimmick

    Roger Dimmick Member

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    The Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railways are required to lock all outward opening doors on their carriages, due to the limited clearances at many locations. This has been the situation since Victorian times...

    The vast majority of our passengers prefer the evil temptations of 21st Century comforts and conveniences offered by our corridor-connected stock, so the doors on heritage carriages are normally kept locked until required.

    This does not mean that they are locked out of use - a simple request to the Guard would have resulted in the door being opened for you, then locked again once you were safely in your seats.
     
  15. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe that's usually true, but not it would seem if the guard is in a bad mood. For our trip on the FR on 11th July, we wanted to ride in the observation car no 102, from Blaenau. The guard refused to open it and said something like it wasn't allowed for safety reasons as it wasn't a corridor coach. Seemed odd to have an observation car and then not allow people in it. (If I remember right, it was the 15.10 train.)

    This was the coach, but by the time they'd run the loco round it had been locked up:

    Pat's Camera Roll 183small.JPG
     
  16. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Seems unlikely the guard would say that, seeing as 1st class obs 102 had a corridor connection when I travelled on it on Tuesday...

    What they usually do if passengers attempt to join the train just before departure is ask you to get in further along the train and walk through the corridor connection.
     
  17. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

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    We probably just caught him having a bad day. He definitely refused to let us ride in that coach. I think the next coach along may also have been an observation coach, hence no corridor connection.

    We had a good ride though, I don't want to make a big issue of it, I was just commenting on Roger D's post above.
     
  18. Chris B

    Chris B New Member

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    As stated in Andrews post, the obs is first class so an addition fare upgrade (£6 per person I think) would have been required to ride in there if you only had a std ticket.

    Chris
     
  19. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

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    We had it in our hands ready to pay, it was refused
     
  20. Roger Dimmick

    Roger Dimmick Member

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    Oh dear - definitely a case of poor communication skills, to say the very least..!

    Yes, you are correct - there were two Observation Carrs on that train (I was trying to make out the details of the second carriage as I thought it looked unusual...)

    The trailing from Port / leading from Blaenau Observation Carr had been added to a standard FR carriage set to accommodate a private group travelling on the FR in association with the 'Royal Scotsman Grand Tour'.

    The carriage had been specially prepared with table decorations and on-board catering provided. (If you look at your photograph, you can see the table settings through the window) As such it was classed as a Private Carriage for the journey to Blaenau Ffestiniog - and on the return journey was to be locked out of service as it still contained the catering equipment, left over food, table decorations etc...

    The accompanying Stewards, having escorted the 'Royal Scotsman' passengers to the Conwy Valley platform, were to use the journey down to Porthmadog to clear up the detritus and clean down the carriage tables.

    So, apologies for the Guard's poor explanation of what was taking place - but there was a valid reason for not being able to travel in that particular Observation Carr...
     
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