Lost LNWR Crane

Nothing significant to report at this time.

My contact at the NRM tells me that the NRM has contacted the CVR to express its alarm and displeasure, and has suggested to the NRM that if the CVR wishes to continue to enjoy a good working relationship with the NRM it should do something to sort the situation out asap. The NRM cannot however take any enforcement action, so ultimately if the CVR raises the proverbial two fingers there is little that can be done. The CVR did not discuss the disposal with the NRM, despite its (the CVR's) claims that it did so.

Hopefully however the CVR will appreciate that it has blundered, and will takes steps to reverse the sale and buy back the crane. If public opinion was to encourage them to do this it could do no harm.

The crane itself is still in David Reid's yard in Stoke and is not in immediate danger, thanks to the understanding of David Reid and James Watson. If Robin Jones has been able to come good on his word, there will be an article in the next HR magazine (which is due out towards the end of next week I think) which will bring the matter to a much wider audience.

If the CVR cannot be persuaded to buy the crane back and dispose of it properly (ie in accordance with MLA guidelines), or at least donate the proceeds of the sale towards a recovery fund, then it will be necessary to buy the crane back through public appeal.

Sadly there is no prospect at this time of the crane being taken back into the National Collection.

If I hear any new developments I will post them here.

 

What surprises me is that a truly historic artefact can be 'disposed' of by the NRM. It's not exactly a Class 50.

 

Right, ok, I'm not going to type everything out in chapter and verse but:

1998 Museums Association Definition of a Museum

'Museums enable people to explore collections for inspiration, learning and enjoyment. They are institutions that collect, safeguard and make accessible artefacts and specimens, which they hold in trust for society.' This definition includes art galleries with collections of works of art, as well as museums with historical collections of objects.

Generally - there are three types of museum.

National (like the one wot I work for)
Local Authority (from Tyne & Wear or Leicestershire County - who are the two biggest, to Warwick County or even Hinckley Museum.)
and Independent - from the Museum of Science & Industry in Manchester, run by a Trust, to Vintage Vehicles, Shildon Ltd, basically the collections of a passionate individual over many years.

Over the last 15 years I have worked for examples of all three, in both paid and voluntary basis, and am a Trustee of a smallish but nationally significant museum.

Some run for "profit" and loosely adhere to the description of a museum (I would venture National Motorcycle Museum here - super collection, but nack all interpretation of the exhibits and a belting conference centre attached), the majority exist for the enjoyment of their collections by the public and occasionally staff and volunteers. Very few make money - especially the Trusts, Local Authorities and Nationals.

Disposals can be because of deterioration, duplication, change of policy or transfer to another accredited/registered museum who is deemed to give the object a better future. It is in this latter spirit that the crane went to CVR - as have several vehicles since, including a couple this year - which are even rarer than the crane, but are already receiving excellent care in the collections of other institutions.

In the past, some museums have not been wise collectors or even stewards of their collections - and this is where bad experiences come into play. Certainly in recent years, the profession has upped its game for collections management and review, and big museum services have got into serious trouble trying to sell Lowry paintings and such like. Funding and support has been withdrawn, and indeed, selling collection items is really a no-no, although independent "museums" run by small groups or individuals seem to be free to do so - not being ties by being "accredited/registered" (the professional standard). Indeed, the owner of the Keswick Mining Museum told me he could go out and buy what he wanted at auction because it was his collection and he was answerable to no-one.

The nuts and bolts of disposal as from the Museums Association website are on this link below. If you don't want to go through it all, the basic hierarchy/process is this:

Don't do it.
But if you want to dispose of an item and its disposal has been approved by the Trustees/Board then:
You must offer the object to another registered/accredited museum first, ideally via the web or disposal column in Museums Journal. This can be via sale or transfer of title. This is where Dorset are with the Marshall. It must be advertised for three months.
If after that,it has not been found a new home, in this order, this is what happens:
Offer to non-registered museum
Offer for sale, privately or by auction.
Give it away
As a last resort, destroy - by scrapping, burning, local authority waste or whatever, but destruction really is the last resort and very rare.

http://www.museumsassociation.org/collections/disposal

Disposal is a robust part of collections management and not entered into lightly.

 

Whatever the policy may be Anthony, the preservation scene is thin the ground of LNWR examples. To wilfully 'dispose' of an artefact even as insignificant as a crane seems reckless. Nothing you have wrote above has changed my mind, by the way.

 

We transferred the crane to CVR in good faith Neil, subsequent actions are not of our doing. Two days ago we transferred formally the Forcett Coach to Beamish and the NER stores van to the NYMR who have restored it at Pickering. That's not reckless, it ensures them a positive future with siginificant investment which the NRM could not give in the immediate timescale. We had the same hopes for the crane, given that the similar NER Cravens example in the collection also requires time and money.

 

What legally binding guarantees are offered by these 'disposals' though? Surely a loan is a better option where ownership is protected rather than a 'disposal' where ownership is transferred.

 

Give me time back at the desk, and I will dig out more chapter and verse on the conditions of disposal. In some cases, money for restoration is only forthcoming for a transfer, where the object isn't going to get taken back once restored (or the fear of that at least is raised). Let us just say for the moment that the crane case goes deeper than I can go into here.

 

Are you all sure that the crane which left the CVR in April is actually the LNWR one numbered RS1020/30 ?

I understand that the ex-Toton diesel crane ADRC96706, was the one which left in April this year. This might not have the same historical significance although its loss is regrettable.

Chris Moxon wrote "For those who believe those at the CVR do not care about vehicles and would rather scrap than sell on, consider the two Mk1 suburban vehicles which were in the same situation and have happily been re-homed at the North Norfolk Railway where they will hopefully form a fine train in the not-to-distant future."

The CVR can take no credit for re-homing the two suburban coaches. The owning group, led by Dave Felstead, arranged for the North Norfolk Railway to prevent them being cut up

 

We are sure, having rung both Dave Reid and James Watson

 

Thanks, I appreciate your confirmation. It appears that both cranes have been the subject of a mass clear out.

I trust that those responsible will be held accountable for their actions and look forward to reading more in HR magazine.

 

Anthony, very many thanks for your comments.

From our perspective at the BDCA, we have no issues with the 2004 de-accessioning; it is unreasonable to expect the NRM to be the sole custodian of the country's railway heritage, and many more specialised artifacts will be better off at more specialised collections. What is reprehensible is the cavalier way in which the CVR disposed of this without, it would seem, the slightest consideration of the right way to behave.

We first became concerned when the 75-tonner was scrapped last year, and as you may be aware that was when I started corresponding with your colleagues at the NRM to try to establish who actually owned
MP21. We were already concerned by the fact that it was clearly dumped at Oakamoor and had been for many years. We also contacted the CVR to try to arrange an inspection but had no reply until last month, when the CVR replied to say we were too late, the crane had been scrapped in April. Interesting perhaps that we were making these enquiries at the time when the CVR should have been seeking a new home for it, but they made no mention of the intended disposal either to us or to you.

All in all the whole business leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth! We are indeed fortunate that due to the foresight and sense of propriety shown by Messrs Watson and Reid we do have a second chance to save this crane, although to be honest I don't see hoe this is to be done, unless the CVR can be persuaded to do the right thing and buy it back.

I feel also that an artifact such as this is always vulnerable since probably no more than a couple of dozen people actually know enough about the evolution of the breakdown crane fully to appreciate its importance; if the NRM knew this, I think it likely that the Cowans would have been kept in preference to the historically less important Craven crane.

It is, sadly, inevitable that questions will be asked of the NRM, but under the circumstances I think the 2004 decision was wholly understandable. With the advantage of hindsight it was also unfortunate.

 

Thank you Roger, and thanks for understanding. I think the actual transfer was 2004, the decision to transfer it was before I began as I don't ever recall its discussion, and I started in February 2004. As now a member of BDCA and someone who has had a copy of Brownlie on my shelf for more years than I can remember, I am obviously interested both personally and professionally - and we shall see where it all goes.

 

British Airways got it right when they were disposing of the Concorde fleet - they have been loaned to the various museums and BA have kept ownership of all aircraft. This is also the case with the NRM loaning various locos to various preserved railways, though I assume they will be asking for them back at some point!
No one can blame the NRM for the current situation with the crane. Having checked the MLA website it appears as though the North Staffordshire Railway Museum has a "Provisionally Accredited" status where the CVR has no current accreditation, so which was responsible for the disposal?

 

The August issue of 'Railway Magazine' carries the story on page 8 under the heading 'Heritage line sends UK's oldest breakdown crane for scrap.'

 

Definitely lessons to be learned here. Care and research must be done before giving an item of rolling stock to a group/heritage railway/museum to make sure they don't have a history of neglect. Some places have a bad reputation for care.
From experience alot of heritage sites struggle to keep their motive power and revenue earning stock in operable condition. Freight and PW stock often suffers......

 

It's also worth pointing out at this juncture that, unless someone wants this crane enough to come up with the asking price, it will still be lost. It's all very well being critical of its former owners, but is there anyone out there willing and, more importantly, able to do better?

 

Agreed. Going back to my reply on the first page of this thread. I did say the CVR offered this crane to various other lines & Individuals who showed no interest. Selling the crane for scrap was a last resort.
I haven't read the article in the Railway Magazine. Does it mention the above facts?
If it wasn't for Chris bringing this to my attention, resulting in the initial query on here it would probably already be lost. I hope it can be saved & perhaps making it known on a forum like this may have given the CVR another option for disposal. However they did make some effort & didn't take their decision lightly.
Steve

 

If eveyone in the forum put a pound or two together we would have it.

 

Sorry, Steve, but I for one cannot agree. No-one so far has produced a shred of evidence that the CVR made any effort to follow accepted protocols for disposal nor offered it anywhere, we only have your assertion that this happened. We know for a fact that the NRM was not consulted.

I'll wager that the BDCA could have found somewhere for this crane in under a month if we had been consulted, but for us to buy it back is not an option. The point is that no-one should have to buy it back because it should never have been sold in the first place.

At the moment all the information in the public domain could be interpreted as suggesting that the CVR was hoping to capitalize on the high price of scrap without anyone noticing. If the CVR is serious about putting the situation to rights, it should buy it back and then go through a proper disposal process.