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Exmoor Associates - Acquisition of More of the Old L&B Line

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by TheEngineer, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. kscanes

    kscanes Resident of Nat Pres

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    Dear Spelling & Grammar Police

    1. Do you not think that by picking up spelling and/or grammar in one thread you may be putting someone off from posting something interesting on another thread, for fear of being ridiculed for an aberrant apostrophe?

    2. When someone starts going for the player and not the ball in these discussions, I usually take it that they cannot counter said player’s points. Is that the case here?

    Just my view.
     
  2. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    I would hate to see this thread go down the same road as many have done concerning the WHR/FR and WHHR, bickering can only put people off. These sort of discussions always attracts those who have nothing to do with their boring lives but to disrupt the pleasure of other's and cause trouble.
     
  3. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    In response to Baldwin

    The thread is here and has functioned very well over its run time gone off topic a few times. I hope to try and keep it focused but sometimes its difficult, there have been a few scurmishes that detract from what it is all realy about, but I have done my best to stay on topic, whilst explaining certain aspects to various individuals who have asked, my responses have been as I understand the situation to be from where I stand and work.

    I hope over the longer term that all readers will benifit from updates as to what EA is doing hopefully as part of the big picture.

    I suppose the big picture is a new 19 mile railway, if that were possible, I am not sure it is, and in fact I think it probably is not possible, there are some obstacles in the middle which likely will only be overcome if there is sufficient reason at great expense.

    The reason I am not sure is that some sections will cost so much to reinstate it may be cost prohibitive. I do think that an appreciable section could be built within the cost restraints of money that is likely to be availible providing those putting the money up are confident in the plan and the people operating the plan.

    At present we do know that we do not have any money in an account to build any part of a railway or even buy the land to build it on.

    If it were managed well and tightly planned on each operation, as a step by step approach its possible to build by stages, but as the years pass the regulations get more complex, it is the cost to satisfy these issues and regulations that far outweigh the phisical build cost.

    None of us know what the eventual result will be as we buy small sections of usually unconnected track bed. Some of us have a vision and its not shared by everyone, but it is shared by those who relentlessly put their hand in their pocket and its a small step toward the vision we share.

    Then its a fact, no one has the money or source of money in such large amounts to overcome these costs as a single individual , and if they did would we want that, I suspect not. Although the thought is nice and I suspect one or two people are prepared to engage .

    EA whilst being efficient has very limited funds, if several pieces of trackbed all came on the market at once, it is entirely possible that the funds could not be raised even to buy one piece, that is where this thread may come in. It helps to distribute the knowledge and ask people who are not involved to consider the situation.

    We rely totally on those who fund EA , they are all private individuals who have a vision, each time that another piece comes up it is those people who decide if it is to be bought or not so far we have managed to acheive our goals with this little and often approach.

    These contributors must all be happy with how its going or we would have failed to buy "Snapper".

    I hope and EA hopes maybe a few of the other people out there may decide to join in on the next piece we are getting together a significant lenth of Track bed now not quite like it was with the first and second piece Mike Buse is a tremendous negotiator, he proved this when he was Chairman of the L&B managing to get hold of various bits of kit, the final being the negotiations to get the second hunslet and trucks from the Explosion museum at Gosport, that are only now surfacing for use .

    Since Mike stood down from the L&B back in 2005 he has worked continually with Tony and Nik on the bigger picture, staying in contact with all the landowners along the route, with whom they have a very good relationship.

    In response to Charlie , thanks for your posting and view, its interesting to hear peoples views who are not directly involved, about what they think at ground level, and this feedback helps EA to understand what people might be thinking outside of their loop as feed back.

    In response to Ken's post

    1) I am not easily put off many people have tried.

    2) You make a sensible assesment, its a possibility.

    Please let us return to the topic of the thread.It will probably be quiet for a while now.

    Best Regards TheEngineer
     
  4. Merlin

    Merlin New Member

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    Please do keep the posts about what is happening with exmoor associates coming. As a supporter of the idea of the restoration of the L&B not connected to either organisation I find them helpful and encouraging.
    I also agree that the punctuation / spelling pedants have totally lost my sympathy.

    mike
    www.rlsr.org
     
  5. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    Thank you Merlin, I will do my best to update as information becomes availible.

    I have added more script to my last posting before Merlins (143), if anyone would like to refer back.

    Thank You
     
  6. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    Please keep the thread going and let's have more updates please.
     
  7. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    Hello All Readers

    The Directors of EA are pleased to announce that this weekend there is an open invitation to visit Snapper in the afternoon of Sat and all day Sunday .

    On Saturday 14 th there will be a meeting of EA at Loxhore Villiage hall 10.00 onwards to lunch, we will all be talking over future plans and possibilities, (most shareholders are kept aware of the plan as it grows week by week and are amazingly enthusiastic) food is being served if we know your comming that is but there is always some spare, we hope the Trustees of the L&B might make the effort to attend and see the progress being made to the bigger picture, the latest L&B magazine really does not do EA justice, but hey never mind. The world will eventually see for itself.

    EA Directors and primary supporters will be about on both days to talk and chat I will be there also.All and any visitors are most welcome to come along.

    Regards TheEngineer
     
  8. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Andy,

    As the L&BR Trust is holding its long-planned annual Spring Gala at Woody Bay over the same weekend, it is to be hoped that many visitors will take the opportunity to visit both venues, although I know several of the Trustrees and other volunteers will be pretty busy, so may not be able to get away. It was good to see the following in the L&BR magazine though:

    "I am delighted to be able to report that serious efforts are being made to improve relations between the Directors of Exmoor Associates and the Board of Trustees following a lengthy meeting. ... Several Trustees have been shareholders in EA from the very beginning and we expect our company - and our investment - to play a leading part in the development of the L&B."

    I'm sure you will share with me the hope that this signals a more positive outlook for all, and for the greater L&B project as a whole.

    As one of the banners flown at Lynton said for the opening in 1898: "Good Luck to our Railway"
     
  9. Axe

    Axe Member

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    Exmoor Associates announced to the L&BR AGM on Saturday evening that they had successfully procured a further 200 metre section of the old L&BR trackbed. The new section is a continuation of the recent trackbed acquisition at Snapper Halt. Overall Exmoor Associates now owns the entire trackbed from Snapper Halt, over Bridge 15 and all the way up to the river bank where the line then crossed the River Yeo over the now demolished Bridge 16.

    Chris
     
  10. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    Good Evening All AXE is quite correct.

    EA had a meeting at Loxhore Parish Hall on Saturday morning as advertised on here which was attended by about 35 people all EA shareholders, and one or two interested parties it was not attended by any L&B Trust representatives.

    However Mike Buse was invited to tell the floor of the L&B AGM in the evening of saturday and he delegated this to Mike Selby to describe and give out copies of maps, which Mike was pleased to do and did so that all present were aware of EA's latest venture.

    When EA negotiated and purchased "Snapper" late last year.The land was offered in two parcels, 11.5 acres with all the trackbed and 1 acre as a paddock, with separate road access.

    It was debated at the time if we should buy both pieces because the smaller one acre plot did not in fact contain any railway track bed and was a further 15 K on the purchase price, which was significant to us to have to raise .

    We did not all agree at the time, but one or two of those who were major funders could see its potential value and insisted we should buy both plots, which EA did.

    The piece that was the next section North , that we "NOW" have was not for sale, and the owner was not interested in selling for money. Many farmers and people in Devon and come to that all over rural Britton are often like this, its more to do with a deal.

    Within a few weeks, of the completion on "Snapper" some private conversation took place which was jovial and interesting.

    The result of this discussion was in the interest of both parties concerned and a transfer was organised, this took place recently , for this section of trackbed, this was kept silent until last Saturday and even though I was with the Directors last week even I did not know.

    EA now has an 11M wide section 170 yards long (by my paces) right up to the river abutment with a splay 22M wide at the river to accept works that may be needed eventually in the future.

    I reccon the "Snapper" section is now 900 yards in total.

    So Our extra purchase paid off.!!

    Will update you all soon.The next piece of interesting information !! cannot be far away!!

    Best Regards to All readers

    TheEngineer
     
  11. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Thanks for the update, Andy, it is great to see yet another piece of the jigsaw fitting back together. I would have been at the meeting in Loxhore myself, but I had work to do at WB and couldn't get away. It was good to meet you at the L&B AGM later on though.

    Just to confirm one thing if I may; are you speaking here as a director of EA, an official "spokesperson" (to use that horribly PC term!), or just as a shareholder?
     
  12. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    Dear Martyn

    I am first concerned why you ask this question.?? If this is intended to attempt division, not wise.

    On the devide and conquer basis

    You know who I am, what I support and how and why I am connected.

    For the record, and the benifit of reders of my latest posting on this thread, I will say this.

    My alegencies are with those who support EA and its aims and objectives and Martyn's are with the current L&B operation.The both of us have discussed this before in private conversation.Yes we met all of a couple of minutes and 50 words of exchange but very usefull and more than enough time for me.

    I am an Engineer, I was taught to do experiments, to evaluate what is around me, to find things out and prove their validity , to research and "Report Accurately" and not to misslead either myself or others who read my experiments and conclusions.

    I was taught maths and theory of structures to assess if something will stand up.

    I was also taught to evaluate funding streams and to cost my proposed work, to see if it could be done and if anyone would pay ??.

    I choose to write what I know as fact and sometimes (conjecture for others to consider) so that the wider reader base can have a picture of what I see as a current state of affairs.

    I am a Shareholder of EA and talk regularly with The two Mikes Tony and to a lesser extent Nik, although we do talk and have undestanding of eachother.

    I am not their personal or EA's official spokes person although they know what I put up here, and I keep them updated as they do me with the latest situation I do not always post immediately what I know.

    If I was to write incorrect or damaging reports they would ask me to stop. I do not believe they have a problem, because I am generally sensible and accurate with my reports, they make sure I am generally well informed to avoid such a circumstance.

    I hope that will answer the Question.

    The major and incorrectable situation is this

    EA and its Directors and sharholders ethos is to operate in the Black always has and always will, it does not trade as such.

    The L&B operates in the Red always has so far , although more so and to a greater depth of late. The Trustees and Directors of the L&B are happy to do so and feel it is Ok at present.

    It is impossible to bring the two management values together whilst the views are so wide apart.Like pushing magnets together, they repel each other.

    As a personal view and not what EA thinks. I think this-:

    Despite how up beat the AGM was, attendance 75 head and well supported by proxy voting votes for 263 against 4 that is about 270 inclluding those in the hall the current L&B plan is struggling to fund that would mean to raise £1.5 M to proceed each person either in the hall or voting by proxy would need to stump up £ 5000.Is this feasable??

    I do not think it can be done. This plan struggles, because with current and future financial climate, and track record on fund raising of the L&B is not in that league.

    The project cannot fund itself into a 4 or 5 mile railway without massive injections of cash, so far since 2006 no one has identified clearly where this cash is comming from.

    I do however see the gently gently aproach by EA working away at an objective, continually boyant financially, with a small group of dedicated focused shareholders and objectives that can be reached and funded one at a time getting there slowly and so far we have a reasonable amount of success.

    Regards The Engineer
     
  13. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    No Andy, that is not my intention, indeed I'm a little disappointed you would even think that of me, and I had hoped we were all moving away from that "us and them" thinking that has been so devisive of late. I just wondered, that's all, as I too am an EA shareholder. My allegiance, like many, is with the greater L&B Project, not just with the Trust or EA. Lets all just move forward together, eh? There is still much to be done...
     
  14. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    This is nothing to do with EA

    Don't ask the question if your not going to like the answer, or there is a chance you will not like it.

    You knew the answer to this question before you asked the question.

    I do not change to like people again once I have been driven into a situation where , I dislike them for in my oppinion good reason.

    The people who Manage the L&B now and that is at least 6 of them will never reach a situation where I will associate with them, it is too late for reconcilliation on a personal level.

    Its to do with that saying " Once you get an Englishman's back up, you will never get it down again"

    I am an Engineer I always look at the facts and stick to the truth not a politician who changes his view to suit the weather.

    I devise ways of completing operations,with absolute definition.

    That is all I have to say on this. END.....
     
  15. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    TheEngineer, why are you so tetchy? All Martyn wanted to know is in what capacity you report on EA doings to NatPres.

    I'd really like, one day, if you everyone involved in the L&B in whatever capacity could just suck it up and get on with the job. Other then a great love for the L&B I am not involved with it at all anymore, but irregardless of what you say there does seem to be a mentality of them and us between the Trust and EA, or atleast this is conveyed on here. I find this bickering off-putting to say the least.
     
  16. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    Spud , you really need to read the detail in the postings and understand how business function.

    As for you " ever" being involved in the L&B. I don't think you have ever been there? Let alone be involved in its operation, or understand the interaction of the various people and the tasks and complexities.

    There are differences between the immediate objectives of businesses based on their ideology, and internal operation.

    Some can raise funds and others struggle, I have explained all this in the preceding posts, why do you post up badly thought out posts, which indicate you have not taken in what has been written.

    Getting involved in views you really fail to understand is not good. Please refrain and we will try and stick to topic.

    Which is about steps forward (well possibly forward) that EA are trying to make with the greater L&B.


     
  17. Axe

    Axe Member

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    Readers may care to view the news page at the Exmoor Associates website that includes 3 photos of the latest trackbed acquisition. The last image of the three is particularly attractive and shows the end of the embankment and the remaining brickwork of the demolished Blackwell Bridge (No.16) viewed from the neighbouring bank of the River Yeo.

    Clickythingy here >>> http://www.exmoor-associates.co.uk/2011/05/new-trackbed/#more-369

    Chris
     
  18. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    TheEngineer, you're wrong, I have been to the L&B, and I was a member of the Association many many years ago.

    Please don't treat me like an idiot. By doing so, you both clearly show that you have failed to read what I actually posted, and you have also shown that you have a complete disregard for anyone's opinion if it differs from your own. Patronising people isn't a good method of attracting interest.

    I'd like to refer you back to my previous post. Your reaction to Martyn's question was unnecessary, as indeed was your reaction to mine. Martyn only sort to clarify the capacity in which you post the doings of EA. I stand by the fact that it does very much seem from your posts there is a mentality of them and us between the Trust and EA. Irregardless of whether you feel my opinion is valid, your posts do convey this opinion.
     
  19. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Thanks Chris, there is also a short article on the L&B website, following a few L&B Volunteers' visit to help out with more of the clearance at Snapper at the beginning of this month. see: http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/exmoor
     
  20. ellenbee pioneer

    ellenbee pioneer New Member

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    Interesting opinions, guys. I do believe though, both EA and L&B supporters are missing the main point -
    what is the point in buying up all this land? Throwing around insults doesn't hide the fact that much of it will be of no use whatsoever. The L&B's only commonality with the WHR is the gauge, the fact that it ceased operation in the 1930's, and the original mileage around the twenty mark.
    The WHR connects two large towns with ample car parking; the L&B today connects a large town with very poor car parking provision with a tourist resort notoriously choked in summer. The WHR has some stunning scenery for most of its length, the L&B has attractive scenery in parts; the whr trackbed was effectively preserved intact and required relatively little remedial work prior to tracklaying - the L&B, by comparison, requires massive reinstatement of bridges, a viaduct, sections drowned by the reservoir or converted into a road or cart-tracks, or even completely levelled altogether. And that's outside of Barnstaple.
    The base economics of operation (let alone construction) are hugely against operations south of Wistlandpound. There is a very good economic case for running a park-and-ride operation from Blackmoor to Lynton, with a very necessary cable car connection to either of the twin towns, but preferably Lynmouth. Even that 7.5 mile section is likely to cost upwards of £14m at todays prices, but with rampant inflation the eventual cost is anybody's guess. That's if it comes in on time. Lyd took twice as long, and cost twice as much to build as predicted in 1995, and that was just one loco.

    Wake up and smell the coffee, guys. Times have changed, there just isn't the money swilling around anymore. So let's get real, and plan for a railway that has a cat's chance of survival, otherwise take up modelling!
     
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