New builds of extinct diesels

How about marrying the PU and some of the internal gubbins from this:

http://class50.zenfolio.com/p809647594/ea39e96e

to the bodywork of this:

http://class50.zenfolio.com/p821508223/e38a61b3f

 

Hmm I thought I was good at maths.. but when I do 50+55 I seem to equal DP2.

 

The 22 gets my vote. Notwithstanding all their failings, this 58 strong (or should that be " 58 weak"?!) class marked an era of branch and local passenger and freight traffic on much of the Western region and as such deserves to be represented. Heritage is surely about what 'was', not just what was 'successful'.

It'd probably be quite a useful diesel to have on many of the shorter preserved lines on the WR, looking more authentic on a short rake of maroon mk 1 stock than some of the larger classes.

As a personal aside, they've always symbolised for me, more than any other diesel class, the demise of steam and the onset of the Beeching period, the "sad" faces somehow reflecting the mood of the railways at that time.

Would anyone dare to estimate the cost of a 22 newbuild - just in case I win the lottery?

 

This would certainly be a first for preservation but it's not the same as rebuilding a steam locomotive..

A steam locomotive sounds much like any other (if we admit the truth).. do we want a Class 22 that sounds like it, hauls like it or just looks like it ?

A lookalike could probably be had quite easily.. if looks are all that matters.. then you could probably make a wooden mock up and be done with it..after all it if doesn't haul and sound the same why do any more ?

This would be quite cheap in comparision.

But to have a genuine replica...

Unlike a steam locomotive where everything was "in house" whoever's house that was.. a diesel It needs a Power Unit, Generator, Traction Motor etc etc.. which were supplied by different companies...

These drawings may not exist.. and if they did would be horrendous to create a one off.. If second hand ones could be sourced it may take a very long time to find them... then overhaul them.. and you still have the Bogies, Frames, Shell, Cabs etc to build.

A stab in the dark guess would be not less than £1mn assuming some original major components were found... creating new components... well Tornado was £3.8mn with out electrical technology.

I guess I'd start with the search for components... and at the same time maybe build the cab, frames, bogies and body work.. which gives something to show for your money quickly.. or in otherwords gets you to the same stage as D5705 or D8233...and those guys are struggling to raise £20k for the generator.

http://railways.national-preservation.com/showthread.php?t=16751

My bet would be on the DPS guys making a Class 23 using a Class 20 as a donor / starting point (same wheel size, similar bogies, same height, shorter length.. which could be extended) with class 37 cabs and a good amount of body side, the DPS as they already have a working T9 power unit and considerable knowledge, expertise and probably parts that could help and such a project would probably gain a lot of interest & support... stab in the dark guess..probably not less than £200k.. already making it one of the most expensive diesels in preservation.

or even easier, would be DP2 from a Class 50, (again doesnt an original DP2 Power unit exist in one of the preserved class 50's ?).. a restored Class 50 with a new cab and some body side changes would get you very close to the real thing very quickly... stab in the dark guess again probably £150k

and afterwards... will you get £500-£1000 per "days use" from a diesel towards it's next overhaul ?

 

Quote...My bet would be on the DPS guys making a Class 29 using a Class 20 as a donor ...unquote

I guess thats a typo for class 23?

 

Sorry going mad...

 

I have to agree with ADB968008 on the costing side, without sourcing a original power unit and a useable transmission (class 22!) any new build looks extremely doubtful!

Thats why only the baby deltic looks possible at the moment.

I would like to see a class 22.... so when we gona track down a PU then!.....

Seriously though, I think it would be a nightmare from a engineering point of view, theres a awfull lot of drawings from different companies that you would need for a start, not sure the NRM would have much for something like a cl22, as I suspect they have for a lot of the steam engines, no doubt of an A1 for example...

and the cl 15 and Co-Bo still need doin yet as well...

But we can dream I suppose

 

OOps yes ! Ive updated it.

 

1 agree,would make more sense to see them finished and 18000 restored first wouldnt it?and the cl 15 ... particulalrly the class 15 as I remember them at Liverpool St as station pilot...always immaculate D8234 and 43 i seem tio remember

 

Probably euromillions or el gordo rather than the national lottery, then! I've never heard of any major bits of a 22 (or a 21/29 for that matter) kicking around à la baby deltic engine either.

 

Glad someone mentioned the Fell!

Now - what about the most handsome modern traction experiment -

GT3?

 

What many have omitted from the Class 21 / 22 interest is that these classes are important for 3 reasons [1 ] the Class 21 / 22 were built specifically to compare electric - Class 21 - with hydraulic - Class 22 - transmissions as all other factors were equal [ 2 ] NBL was a Derby favoured sub-contractor and therefore followed the concepts of the first successful main line diesel - namely Derby's 10000 - in its fabrication [ 3 ] the MAN engine was built for British Rail specifications but in the haste to set the engine up and licence it to NBL for production it wasn't fully trsted to iron out its problems.

In terms of bankrupting the builders this was due entirely to BTC - later BR - ordering locos at fixed prices which the increasing cost of both labour and materials had to be borne by the builders as BR rarely offered to assist by paying a more realistic price for their locos.

To say that BR got its diesel fleet cheap is an understatement but that was part of the price paid to encourage Governments of the 1950s / 1960s to provide the money for purchases in the first place.

 

Now - what about the most handsome modern traction experiment -

GT3?[/QUOTE]

Ah yes th GT3, standard 5 chassis with a gas turbine on top, nice looking loco, apparently only loco to have fitted carpets in the drivers cab!

 

And apparently good at setting fire to wooden signal dolls! So even though it ran on the GCR on test, I'm not so sure we'd want it now?

 

Whilst i'm not sure this is the right place to say this safely...

but a certain member of my family was directly involved in scrapping this locomotive at Thomas Wards in Salford and his signature was on the paperwork.
Several times as a child ive been told the story of the scrapping of this locomotive soon after it arrived and showed me some of the details... he's quite proud of it !

I now retreat to safety before I get a kicking on his behalf !

 

If a 23 could be built from components from a 20 surely DRS would be the best to source a unwanted frame and bogies as if the report was correct in the RM they were condensing the fleet of 20s so spares may come avaliable.

 

I'd say so, but it's a bigger long term job, if they have a 37 now and it fits.. then maybe there going for the quick win, afterall 20's arent rare and they can use the 37 for parts later ! it'd be a preservation first...a fundraiser to build an new engine whilst it's already running in another !
Kind of a heart transplant but building the body !

 

what about the southern railway designed deisels , i believe that they used the same bogies as a 37, and english electric power units would one of these very handsome fore runners be thiesable