West Somerset Railway General Discussion

It's little different from the NYMR although granted, Pickering is a tad larger than Bishops Lydeard. The majority of people start their day from Pickering and have to have travelled there by road to have done so. Minehead and Whitby are obvious destinations whereas Bishops Lydeard and Pickering are less so. Both railways also have intermediate stations that are also destinations in their own right. Whitby and Minehead are also similar in that they have holidaymakers staying in them and, if they opt for a day out on their respective railway, they don't have to travel far so are more likely to travel on an earlier train than those starting from Bishops Lydeard or Pickering, who have had to travel to do so. Added to that, most people will start their day after breakfast and, depending how far they have had to travel will, to some extent, determine when they arrive and so, for some, a later train departure is a more suitable one. For that reason, passenger travel originating from inland will be spread over more hours than those originating at the coast.
It's all fairly logical, really.

 

They claim that most start at the Taunton end, yet the diesel diagrams start at minehead, almost like they looking for a reason not to run them.
No one wants to trust the 28 to get them there. and back to the mainlime, without missing on mileage, cutting their nose off to spite their face

 

The large majority of passengers starting their day on the 1015 from BL come expecting there to be a steam engine on their train. This service, and its diagrams for the rest of the day, carry more passengers than the set starting at MD, therefore it means less passengers are disappointed by the motive power on their train. Anyone who can't get to MD for 1000 can get the 1015 BL to WN and swap there, and still get 60 miles of diesel running instead of 80, unless people set their own rules such as not travelling behind steam or only doing the diesel from absolute start to finish.

 

Apreciate the reply but the core issue isn't that the train is later in departing. It is more that not having a starter off MH limits what you can do with the day really as the finish is also notably earlier. If you want to travel the full length of the line you need to stay on the train to do so without a short break at any stop along the way. Appreciate BL may not be for everyone but if you have bought a rover that entitles you to a full line journey which you then can't make it's a bit off putting.

I agree with the comments regarding MH in being a tourist destination already (much more so than BL) logically tends to it being more of a destination than a arrival point for many passengers but would argue that having a bigger gap in the timetable during the day, or having the second/diesel service arrive and depart MH later, would at least allow for a break from the MH end and an ability to cover the full length of the line.

The difference with the NYMR and Whitby are that there are NR services between Grosmont and Whitby to fill in gaps where there aren't any direct NYMR ones. Looking at the offering between Grosmont and Pickering does allow for round journeys from either end with breaks so you can at least explore other stations along the line and complete a full round trip.

The SVR seemed to have this a year or so ago when renovating the shed roads at Bridgnorth in that all services started and ended at KR which similarly left quite constrained journey opportunities from BN. A DMU has since been added which gives a broader range of service through the day but, as commented previously, would arguably say it's not as popular as a steam loco so is probably avoided to an extent.

 

What about th eintermediate stations in particular Blue Anchor & Watchet?

They seemed to generate a certain amount of traffic

My view is that a Minehead to Watchet/Williton shuttle could either be commercially attractive or make the timetable as a whole more attractive.

 

Blue Anchor and Watchet are probably the most popular destinations after Minehead.
There will be Minehead - Watchet shuttles on Wednesdays in June and July to serve the Watchet Wednesday Market. They can be found on the timetable.

 

Oh dear, just when we thought that the WSR was recovering, a new appeal has been launched. <BJ>

Dear Valued Shareholder,

Help Secure the Future of Our Railway.

''In 1976 a dedicated group of volunteers, enthusiasts and local supporters came together with one goal: to save this railway from Disappearing forever.

What they created became far more than just a preserved railway. It became a living piece of history – a place where the generations have experienced the magic of steam travel, discovered heritage, and enjoyed a powerful sense of community spirit.

Over the years our shareholders have been a driving force behind many of the projects that have progressed, and as we celebrate 50 years of preservation, we need to look ahead to the future. To ensure the railway can continue to operate, inspire, and educate for the next 50 years, essential investment is again now needed.

Your further support will help us:

• Restore historic locomotives and carriages.
• Renew and maintain vital infrastructure.
• Support the volunteers who keep the railway running.
• Protect and preserve our heritage for future generations.

Our aim for 2026 is to raise£250,000 to aid us in future proofing the railway, and we need your help!
Every donation, no matter the size, makes a real difference and becomes part of the railway’s continuing story.

With your help, future generations will still hear the whistle of a steam engine, experience heritage travel and understand the extraordinary dedication that preservation makes possible.

50 years ago, this journey began with determination, optimism, and community spirit. Today, we ask for your support to help carry that legacy forward.

Please consider donating today and help secure the future of our railway for generations to come''.

You can donate online by visiting https://www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk/donations-legacies and clicking the donate now button.

You can also call 01643 704996 to donate over the phone.
Thank you for your continued support.

Yours sincerely


Kerry Noble
General Manager
West Somerset Railway

 

Deja vue ???

 

£250,000 is not a lot of money today. How many members has the Association, how many shareholders are there? I've had a look at the donations page and there's no mention of gift aid. Is this missing a trick?

 

Gift aid? Surely one of the charities would be the better vehicle for this. Otherwise what's the point of them?

 

As is the case for any charity they can only spend charity funds on things that help achieve their registered charitable purposes. Those are often quite narrow. The WSR is owned and operated by a distinct limited company which unlike a charity is run ultimately in the interest of its members/ shareholders. As it's not a charity it cannot recover Gift Aid on any of its own income. That with the greatest potential is obviously fares. So the two WSR support charities might be able to recover Gift Aid on their membershiop fees and donations but certainly not on fares. They would also be subject to the restriction inherent in the support charity model that they can only contribute funds to the operating company when it's within the confines of their respective charitable purposes.

 

Hi John, good to hear from you again! Yes fairly familiar with the concept of charitable objectives not always lining up 100% with plc desires, I sometimes spend a lengthy amount of time debating such matters at our own board meetings!

The WSRA's objectives as stated on the charities commission website say "Our Association is established to promote education in the heritage of the railway from Taunton to Minehead by restoring, preserving and displaying railway locomotives, carriages, wagons and other artefacts (including documents, drawings, photographs, recordings and films) of historical interest and the buildings connected therewith."

There feels like plenty of scope to me for overlap there with what the plc says it would like the money for. Seems strange to me that the WSR as a whole collectively missing out on up to £60k (OK realistically closer to £30k, but still a sizable chunk of cash).

The WSRHT's objectives are definitely narrower and I would agree not really suitable to fit this appeal.

Sent from my PGT-N19 using Tapatalk

 

It's a big amount of money without much story or focus. Essentially "give us lots of money to do various things". In four bullet points they have basically listed everything a railway does: locos, carriages, infrastructure, historic artefacts, staff. But it is lacking a compelling story. Why? Why now?

I can't help thinking more focus - perhaps split into two or three smaller appeals - would be better; it would probably also in that case be easier to then demonstrate that they could be run charitably and therefore attract Gift Aid.

Tom

 

Indeed. But, as has been discussed many times before, there are many ways in which a charity may offer support through specific grants, funding activities, etc. That's happened before at the WSR, and there's no structural reason why it shouldn't happen again. It may not be structured as revenue support, but the net effect will be the same to the bottom line, and may be more powerful in delivering investment

Having come from quite tricky discussions about giving grants to CICs recently, I'm very conscious that there's something really unsettling about donating to a company - even within the context of railway preservation. Part of that is the legal form, part of it is that gifts are not being optimised for value. And not all of the reaction is wholly rational.

 

Indeed, but as you know the Charity Commission has expressed concern that some charities are pushing the boundaries too far. In any event the fact that the WSR is owned and operated by a non charitable entity means that the principal benefit of Gift aid on fares is denied it.

 

As you know the Charity Commission has expressed concern that some charities may be pushing the boundaries of their charitable purposes too far. In any event the fact that the WSR is owned and operated by a non charitable company means the largest financial benefit of Gift Aid on fares is denied to it.

 

Apologies…duplicated. I couldnt see that the earlier reply had been sent

 

Two separate questions. Gift Aid on fares is a structural question which raises questions about WSR organisational structure. It's not directly relevant to an appeal this year.

More broadly, I note that the CC are concerned about charities using their money in line with expressed charitable purposes. That requires a little care and thought, but should not be an onerous issue*. And, noting the comments from @Jamessquared, if those are insuperable for this year, then that is a pointer to how well the appeal deserves to do.

* - I am a trustee of a grant giving charity. We seek grant applications each year and are not prescriptive about what legal form an applicant holds - only that the application must be applicable to our charitable purposes (a mixture of target group and area). We then select the projects that, based on the applications and some interviews, trustees think offer the best value. Following that process, we have given grants this year (as in previous years) to a mixture of unincorporated bodies, charities, CICs, and schools - because they have a clear projects in mind. Where they don't have restricted funds, we have enquired into their ability to ensure that the grant will be used for the stated purposes. None of the applications have required a huge amount of effort from the organisations, and the successful applications tend to come from people and organisations that know what they're about. If they can't state that (and some that don't make the cut don't), they don't deserve to get very far.

 

The problem ( and there have numerous manifestations of it ) is that the funding support charity may expect to set spending priorities. When the ownership and operation of the railway is vested in the recipient company accountable to a diffferent set of stakeholders that can be a recipe for tension and even conflict. It’s possibly one of the reasons that more heritage railways have opted for the integrated charitable community benefit society model.

 

Agains, there are two separate issues here which should not be conflated.

One is about the underlying structure. If you're talking about general funding support, then I agree that this potential exists and is a reason to try to rationalise the structures - always bearing in mind that conflict "between organisations" may actually be a symptom of something more fundamental. That is however not significantly relevant to this specific appeal, and the questions that have been asked.

However, this is a situation where a company is making an appeal but not maximising the potential of that appeal. If it's genuinely for the purposes of investing in the future of the railway, it should be straightforward to define projects that those charities can give to within their purposes. In the context of an appeal for £250k, that means that the appeal needs to obtain up to an extra £50k in donations that they would otherwise benefit from Gift Aid. In and of itself, that failure to exploit generosity reduces my willingness to give.

If it is really true that the reason that this appeal is structured in this way (and, in fairness to the WSR, this is only hypothetical), then that is IMHO a strong signal about the nature of the body seeking the funds, that it cannot find a way to align purposes with one or more charities that expressly exist for the benefit of the railway.