North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

And I think his observation about public benefit was correct, but taken to an absurd and organisation threatening extent by his contempt for the views of members. In that top down managerialist view of organisational structure*, the value of other more diverse forms of management was lost.

* - I don't think it is coincidental that he worked for a large corporate rather than a small/medium sized firm, and that the models fit better at that large scale.

 

The East Lancs are holding a Thomas event this weekend. For one adult and two kids it is £49.68. On the NYMR it will be £70.95, both before any promo discount. On the ELR you get a 12 mile round trip to Ramsbottom with Thomas. On the NYMR you get a two mile round trip with Thomas. Bury is 42 miles from the centre of Leeds; Pickering is 52 miles. If you were from around the Leeds/Bradford/Wakefield area with a population of about 2 million and wanted a Thomas day for the kids, which would be you choose? Even if it did mean a trip into Lancashire.

 

I agree. I have had similar experience. I argued that the principal customer of the railway was the volunteer. No, other board members cried, it’s th paying customer. But, the paying customer has no service if the volunteer isn’t there, was my point.

Of course reality is that both are vital, and the art of managing a heritage railway is to find the sweet spot where both paying visitors and volunteers (and indeed donors and grant bodies) are all satisfied to the greatest extent.

What I think is a great shame, and a consequence of appointing too many trustees, directors and managers who have not themselves been heritage railway volunteers, is the lack of understanding that volunteers are not in fact difficult to please. All it really requires is clarity of communication and a willingness to listen. And listening does not mean do what they want, it means understanding their points, incorporating what you can, and explaining what and why you can’t incorporate it all. Simples.

 

What happens when little Johnny discovers they just go to New Bridge and back?

I made a mistake in my previous calculations. I didn't deduct the 10% booking fee. Each seat of a one adult plus child combination is worth £15.58.
A 20% reduction makes this £12.46

778 people per day could be needed simply to replace the takings from two moderately filled Whitby trains.

 

I'd probably choose Bury. But the distance travelled for a kids' event might well bias me towards Pickering - travel isn't necessarily the key thing for a kids' experience (I still remember Santa at Didcot much more than many other trips out as a kid).

 

I have tried in several previous posts to draw attention to the loss of "institutional knowledge" across the NYMR, and ironically the person you have mentioned played a big part in helping to ensure that - and probably still does, I suspect. You have mentioned a "gang of four" that run the railway, and I think he's probably one of them, so personally I'd regard his utterances as being from someone "who speaks with forked tongue" I'm not sure mi8ssing out on them is a great loss.

 

IMHO this balance is surely the key point?

 

...... and I have been told that the company he worked for went catastrophically bust - though I'm sure that was just coincidence!

 

There are many aspects to public benefit including :
Creating an environment for volunteering.
Developing the knowledge of volunteers.
Preserving history ad ensuring it continues to exist.
Recreating history for the benefit of the public.

....



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I suspect @Steve was referring to a different person to the one you are! Someone who commented from time to time on this thread, then became a trustee, then essentially disappeared. I seem to recall as well that there was talk of an edict about board members and senior managers no longer engaging on social media.

Tom

 

I'm not sure where you are getting your income per seat figures from. Could you explain? Not saying you're wrong, just intrigued.

 

The 'gang of four' is a group who are referred to by several people in e-mails to me and I think in common use on the Railway. They have not been named but I can make agood guess as to who they are. And I wouldn't include the person I think you are referring to. He is very influential, although not involved in the day-to-day management, AFAIK. What is even more worrying is that he appears to have influence within the HRA and elsewhere. The proposed changes on the Bluebell come to mind.

 

I agree - and these are all provided for in the Articles of Association. But there is an important, subtle, difference between "creating an environment for..." and "in the interests of the current volunteers". I agree with the observation by @Lineisclear on this, but absolutely not with the extrapolation of that to create a bias against serving volunteer influence. Others are absolutely right in their view that serving volunteers need to be regarded as key customers of the charity, and that their interests are one of the key elements in the overall picture.

The difference is subtle but important

 

The changes he drove at NYMR were not entirely wrong, particularly in principle. The law has changed, and does favour combining company and charity structures; Gift Aid and other charity concessions are valuable and should not be ignored.

The issue was with the extrapolation of these into a self-perpetuating management control mechanism, with minimal feedback. Taken with a closed managerial culture, epitomised by "gang of 4" epithets, the organisational culture has changed materially.

He supported similar changes in Lynton, which were comprehensively defeated by a membership who realised the power that this would give a closed circle of trustees, undermining the ability of the members funding their work to influence the long term direction of the organisation. @Breva has commented on the subtle impact of such changes elsewhere, and the dangers - but they are fundamentally about the mechanics of how boards are formed, not company/charity structure per se.

 

Agreed that's why I specifically added develop the knowledge of volunteers.

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Of course not. But focus on the 'bottom line'.

That person is self-evidently someone who at one point in time had a very strong connection to the NYMR (the line, not the current organization) - otherwise why would they intend to leave it a very large sum of money. That bond notwithstanding, they have decided to leave it some other organization. Why?

They must have decided that to do so would be the proverbial 'throwing good money after bad' - i.e. the current organization is 'bleeding money'; and if that person's legacy were added to the current organization's resources, it too would disappear. The current organization's decision to 'blow' a couple of thousand pounds on that bogus award has thus cost the line a lot more than a couple of thousand pounds (since that choice apparently triggered that person's decision to divert their legacy elsewhere).

Is that person's apparent perception, that the line is almost irretrievably headed for collapse, accurate? Well, look at it through the eyes of a 'turn-around specialist'. (I know I keep saying that most heritage lines aren't 'ordinary businesses' - but as I cheerfully admit, they do have some major aspects of businesses.) The very first thing those people do, on taking over a business, is to ruthlessly cut costs wherever they can. The current organization is doing almost the exact opposite.

I won't even get into the other things which have caused comment here - such as the apparent attempt to increase income (another 'business aspect') by trying to divert into other 'markets'. (Yes, I know that's another standard arrow in the turn-around specialist's quiver.) Commuter line (the ghost of Beeching must have gotten a good laugh out of that one, as I pointed out); amusement attraction; what's next, in the attempts to make a successful 'ordinary business' out of the NYMR, when that one doesn't work?

I suspect that person's decision to divert their legacy could be reversed - but only if it could be put to a use that had a higher probability of helping the line - a line they evidently have/had such a link to. I tried to suggest such a path. It may not be viable - but I, like the legator, feel that the current organization is headed for a bust-up.

Either the current organization has to be changed (and there have been several posts here pointing out how incredibly difficult that would be to achieve; both from prior examples, as well as the specific circumstances of the current organization); or people have to start preparing for the inevitable crash.

Noel

 

Hello. Its fag packet stuff, but shouldn't be too far out.
1xadult + 1xchild = 46.20
Minus booking fee of 10% = 41.58
Divide by 2 = 20.79
Take off Mattel fee at 25% = 15.59
Discount by 20% = 12.39

Using 25% as the Mattel fee, not 26% as earlier.

A Whitby train full fare is £48.50
100 passengers = £4850
200 passengers (two trains 0920, 1200) = £9700

Around 780 Thomas passengers at one adult plus one child would equal 200 Whitby full -fare passengers.

Over 8 days just 1600 Whitby passengers would equal 6,240 Thomas travellers on the basis of the sums above.

Fag packet stuff, I know, but it can't be too far out. I assume the NYMR have qualified accountants doing their sums.

They need hordes to descend to make this a success. Another risk is the timing because, once they have visited they may not return this season to buy a ticket where the all the money paid goes to the NYMR and not Mattel etc.

 

Craziness! I totally get the want to run a Thomas or A N Other event. But to close off Pickering and stop your core market is just financial suicide. Sheer madness!

 

Not sure the comparison is like for like since at the moment the line can’t run to Whitby, so the comparison ought to be with the numbers and revenue they can earn with the current truncated set up, shouldn’t it?

 

8 mile round trip ..4 miles Thomas to Rammy ( with some rear end assistance ) and 4 miles back to Bury with D5054 ..plus the troublesome trucks demo etc .