West Somerset Railway General Discussion

This is all good stuff. Nor is it the only good thing going on at the WSR. I don't think any of us would deny that lots of good stuff goes on there. As Tom says, doing up wagons can even contribute to attracting customers.

However the effect of doing up wagons on finances (plus or minus) is surely marginal, when what the WSR claimed to need a few years ago was cash by the million. There has been no news of the arrival of any substantial funding, and mutters about the infrastructure being after all in much better condition than was thought are unconvincing. Meanwhile the accounts continue to cast doubt on viability beyond a year or two. It is the financial position that warrants negativity, taken together with past actions. While some of the past actions may be considered (by some) as water under the bridge, the loss of reputation with potential grant providers remains very relevant.

 

Really? Again? I've yet to see a railway whose purposes even imply a constraint on railway heritage, and allowing some volunteers to focus on an unremunerative but morale boosting activity that reflects heritage goes nowhere down the road you imply.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be care taken over why things are being done, but not to the level of almost paranoia being suggested here.

 

Important observations there. However the criteria for being registered as a charity have expanded over the years. The playing trains aspect doesn't qualify, but there are educational aspects beyond educating Joe Public about a bit of history, such as educating volunteers and apprentices in various skills.

 

After visits to the WSR, Gloucestershire Warwickshire, GCR and SVR, I must applaud the various wagon groups on their dedication and quality of work. The various goods trains are incredible and take me back to my days of watching goods trains in action on the Somerset and Dorset Railway in the 1960s. Yes I am old . <BJ>

 

I don't disagree that a different structure may harmonise wishes better, but I'm not sure I see much evidence that there is particularly much tension between members' wishes and charitable objectives anywhere in particular.
Perhaps I use the phrase "Playing trains" a little too flippantly (especially as a trustee myself!). I tend to think of it in terms of venn diagrams. If a railway's supporting charity's objectives is one circle and members' wishes another, I think there's scope for significant overlap with well set objectives and a pragmatic board of trustees.

Our objectives for example say "The charity’s objectives are to support and/or maintain the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway as a living museum for the benefit of the public."
I have no qualms in saying that wagons are an important part of a living railway museum given the importance of freight to the railways, so it falls happily within our charitable objectives. You can usually find similar reasoning for plenty of "nice to haves" that volunteers want.

I find it does tend to be the case that the "playing trains" element that volunteers get a kick out of is actually much closer to trying to recreate scenes of yesteryear than your average more commercial 7 coach train trundling through countryside between gift shops and cafes can hope to achieve (which by and large we tend to accept is a necessary part of the whole operation).

If anything I'd say the greater tension is with charitable objectives and members' wishes on the one side together, and the more commercial view on the other.

 

I do hope you actually mean overstated

 

Yes, one of those!

Tom

 

There can be confusion between "can't be overstated" and "shouldn't be understated".

 

Indeed ! I have long held an affection for the Ffestiniog. I have visited since the early 1960s. A
first sighting of the WHR tunnels in the Pass (whilst travelling by coach from Swansea Uni
to Bangor Uni to play Rugby ) in 1961 sparked an interest in the WHR. I never envisaged that
trains would ever run through the Pass, The concept of the FR reaching Blaenau seemed
surreal enough.

However WHR/FR loco mileages. Yes excellent. I suspect maximum annual mileages were
in the 2010s post the introduction of full services twixt Porthmadog and Caernarfon.
In 2015 ( according to a note I have ). 14 locos ran a total mileage of 61,500 miles.
Split 34,200 on the FR and 27,200 on the WHR.

( I suspect the current timetable, as per the WSR, requires lower annual mileages )

A remarkable achievement, and bearing in mind the 20mph overall speed limit, in terms
of ‘steaming hours’ even more remarkable. ( ysblenydd ! )

I am afraid post Covid I have not visited. Porlock to Maentwrog is now too long a drive
for me.

Michael Rowe

 

So no small or medium sized steam loco in service for off-peak, then?

Coal consumption figures would be interesting.

Given the very limited operating life between overhauls and the life cycle costs involved there's very little case for keeping small locos for off-peak services ( that by their nature are not particularly profitable). Ideally every loco has to be be able to work any train on a heritage railway. Even the big railway accepted this after many , many years of wasted effort and resources.

 

Fair point and yes there can also be tension between the commercial activities that earn a crust and charitable purposes. That's one of the reasons that operating the railway as a revenue generating activity will often be undertaken by a separate or related entity that may well have shareholders to whom distinct duties are owed. Flying Scotsman's railway is fortunate in that its supporting charity's purposes are written in much broader terms than most. That's particuarly true for those incorporated before permissible charitable purposes were expanded by fairly recent legislation. Before that they had to squeeze themselves under the public education heading. In practice such education was often assumed to rub off on visitors as a by-product of preserving and operating the railway rather than being the core reason for its existence. Although they could benefit from wider permissible charitable purposes that's only possible where they have amended their constitutions to formally adopt those purposes; they don't apply automatically.
As Flying Scotsman also emphasizes his railway's charitable purposes are to benefit the public, not its members or volunteers . Where their interests align with those purposes that's fine but if the overriding objective is to enable the volunteers to play trains that's not.

 

It may or may not be intentional, but your posts are coming across as trying to find problems where they don't exist.

 

I was approached earlier in the year to support, through participation in their management team, a charity who's aim was to improve mens mental health. They did this through in the main offering a series of what are often called man caves ie places where men could meet and carry out wood work, metal work, gardening and similar activities. Extending this to playing steam trains isn't conceptually a big jump.

Edit typo

 

Trustees should be able to balance all competing needs. They should communicate that internally, and if necessary be prepared to change structures and objectives of course. I don’t buy the thesis that their hands are tied and that’s what is causing tensions. What’s causing tensions is ineffective trusteeship.

 

Absolutely, as such activities clearly fulfill that charity's registered purpose. However if that purpose was educating the public in the history and development of the railway ( as was typically the case) it would be more of a leap in the dark. For that reason the railway charity of which I'm a trustee has used the opportunity of wider permissible charitable purposes to include, amongst others, promotion of the health, social and welfare benefits of volunteering as one of its registered charitable purposes. As a result it has attracted grant support that woluld otherwise have been unavailable.

 

But if the purposes are about education in the history and development of the railway, it's hardly a stretch to have volunteers do some work on wagons.

 

That may be, but I'd suggest that in that case it calls into question the charitable status of the organisations. If the intersection doesn't exist, then a heritage railway (and, by extension, all heritage railways) are vulnerable to what's happened in education.

Structure and organisation do matter, and the value of management also matter - a lot.

For me, nurturing the love of preservation is one of the key activities that helps distinguish the better heritage railways from the purely commercial, and gives them their character.

In the context of the original post by @SebWelsh, I just note that an organisation (WSR plc) which I have a very poor opinion of as a whole is sponsoring something valuable, while @Lineisclear has introduced complexities that are irrelevant to the WSR itself, and which IMHO undermine the ability of heritage railways to fulfil their core legal purposes.

 

Of course not but that's missing the point. The suggestion was that primary objective was to enable volunteers to enjoy their hobby. It can't be for a charity. However, where any volunteer input restoring wagons or otherwise is incidental to achievement of a heritage railway charity's registered public benefit purpose then that's fine.

 

@flying scotsman123 has answered the point on language. I'd go further - if the activities performed meet the charitable objectives, then the motive is almost irrelevant.

I'm a PCC member at church; we're large enough to have registered with the Commission and we have objectives subject to CC regulation. They are very broad and standardised; the effect of them is that pretty well anything that we choose to do as a church is within their scope. The key challenges we face are of focusing our activities and (especially) resources on what we see as most important, and living within our means.

If adjusting Articles to make non-railway activities opens up grants, that's fine. But the activities described are inherent within running a railway, and therefore should be being nurtured and channelled within any well run railway.