Bluebell Railway General Discussion

I'm for ever trying to recreate the past with my railway filming. As time goes by it becomes ever more difficult ....especially on the main line.

I've always felt a little half hearted about a film clip I have of 73082 on the Pullman dining set nearing Horsted Keynes,. as it's not exactly an authentic working. Now you have enlightened me of news that a Std.5 actually hauled the Bournemouth Belle Pullman train. Bryan, you have made my day. I shall sit back and watch the film again today with a big smile on my face. Thank you. <BJ>

 

That's great, thanks for letting me know. I try the same with my still photography when I can. Like mainly photographing the various Golden Arrows we get in Kent on the route they mostly used in steam days. Even though Clan Line on the Belmond Pullman is the only authentic one - perhaps I should say almost authentic as I think Clan Line may have been in original condition when it was an Arrow loco, and in my time watching that train it had a mix of Pullmans and normal coaches.

As for 73082 yesterday, it had two runs up in to Horsted Keynes , so I have two versions of that arrival shot. The first from the very end of normal public access on platform 5. And the second from the end of platform 4. Both locations chosen as I didn't want to show it was a 4 car train of Pullmans and not the Belle's sort of length. And from those I took from platform 5, I used one that doesn't clearly show the third coach is a six wheeler. Whereas that from platform 4 I've been able to use one that shows almost all the 4 Pullmans, and it is not clear that they include the six wheeler. I'll use one as an illustration that at least once a BR Standard class 5 4-6-0 hauled a heavy, normal service Pullman train, with my 4 December timing log of 73022 on the up Belle.

Thank goodness I'm not obsessional about focussing only on BR SR steam and the locos I saw and travelled behind from 1960 to 1967. Or I'd be constantly suggesting to Tom @Jamessquared that maybe it would be good to run the Pullman dining car train with 73082 and a Bournemouth Belle headboard Maybe 34059 too - I did time Light Pacifics on it as well as the booked Merchant Navys.

The two photos that I set out to get yesterday of 73082 on the Golden Arrow aka the Bournemouth Belle, are below showing how the lineside material let me have more of the train in view from platform 4. I won't even start on the fact I also sort of got 80151 looking like it was on just a two coach train, to fit with my timing logs on the Brockenhurst-Lymington Branch!

Bryan B.

 

Yes - Clan Line was transferred to Nine Elms in June 1959, (before rebuilding) and spent the rest of its BR working life on the SWD. I think that 35015 was the only rebuilt MN to work the Golden Arrow.

 

Looking for more connections between the Bluebell's Golden Arrow and the Bournemouth Belle, I've been checking the Bluebell Railway's carriage stock list this evening.

I should have noted the Pullman car names on Sunday, but somehow missed doing that.

I assume they would have been Car No. 54, Fingall and Christine? Along with the six wheeler that I see is an ex LM van painted in Pullman colours.

With Fingal and Christine both shown as being used on the Bournemouth Belle at some stage in their lives.

Bryan B.

 

How comfortable are you with the Golden Arrow insignia?

 

It wasn’t the only time a 5 worked the Belle. 73117 from memory kept time on the up Belle with Harry Pope driving after he failed 34002 on the down train and the 5 was all Bournemouth had. Speed was down in the thirties up Roundwood but in the seventies after. This was in 1966 on the slower booking but still an amazing feat on 455 tons

 

No problem at all. When I get to using the 73082 Golden Arrow photo next to my log of 73022 on the up Belle. I'll write something along the lines of:

'It's not unusual in the heritage era to see a BR Standard class 5 hauling a Pullman train, as here on the Bluebell Railway on 29 September 2024, with 73082 'Camelot' on their popular prestige four car Pullman lunch train. Named the Golden Arrow after possibly the most famous Pullman train to run on the BR Southern Region in normal steam days. But, whilst it is very unlikely that class of loco ever hauled the Golden Arrow, I once timed BR Standard 5 73022 on the very heavy, 11 coach Bournemouth Belle Pullman train (66-355). A rare occurrence for a train whose gross weight exceeded 450 tons and was normally booked for a class 8 Merchant Navy. Of further interest is that two of Pullmans behind 73082 in September 2024, Fingall and Christine, were once used in the consist of that Southern Region Bournemouth line Pullman train.'

Words that will be subject to edit etc when I get to Chapter 6 of my SR steam loco memoirs book - of which I am currently clearing the printer's proof of the Preliminaries up to to end of Chapter 3 (1963). I would hasten to add the really big chapters start with 1964, Chapter 4.

I will repeat here that, like my Short-eared Owl book (I published that a couple of years ago), it is most certainly a non-commercial project. Indeed, I only plan for a very small print run for the Steam loco book, with no intention to charge anything as most will be given to interested family and friends, a few will go into various archives, with some left over for anyone I've forgetten.

Bryan B

 

Something I'm mindful of is, sometime in the future, when Beachy Head could legitimately wear Southern green as 2424 at the head of the Pullmans, as a reminder of the "Southern Belle" in its final, pre-1933 years.
From someone too young to remember steam's last fling on the main line.

 

Another Std. 5 working of the Bournemouth Belle for you, and possibly the last, was 73043 on the down train on 8 May 1967. By that time the Belle had become almost exclusively diesel worked by a Brush Type 4 and after 73043 I only saw the down train steam hauled on four more occasions - 34023 and 34024 in June, and 34025 and 34034 on 3rd and 5th July. But there may have been others - I saw the down train most, but not every, weekday. The last Merchant Navy I saw on it was 35008 on 1 March 1967. Load was always 9 pullmans and 2 vans.

 

Do you have a date of the 34023 Belle working in June? Many thanks.

 

Yes - 34023 worked the down Belle on 15 June, with 34024 working the following day, 16 June.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Carriage sets for Giants of Steam

All sets listed S --> N

• Set A: 25728-21246-16210-4941-1818-4754 (Green Mark 1s)
• Set B: 2526-5768-1482-6686-1309-1336 (Bulleids + Maunsells)
• Set C: 43909-3064-35207-34556-3069-16012-4957 (GNR Observation saloon + Crimson and cream Mark 1s - GNR saloon available for public use)
• Set D: 387-394-7598-1098-661-3188-3360-114 (Mets + Southern livery pre-grouping + 4 wheelers)

Wheelchair-accessible carriages in sets A and D.

Tom

 

I see that Beach Head, 34059 and 73082 are scheduled to run tomorrow. Can anyone kindly advise which services they will haul. The 'afternoon tea service', no pun intended, is due to run of which I believe has two departures, also there is an evening diner. TIA [BJ]

 

Beachy Head on the A service, Sir Archie on the B service and Camelot on the daytime dining trains.

Tom

 

6 mk1s? I make that around 50 tons over 32424's weight limit. Or have I got that completely wrong?

 

Are you able to say what is in sets A & B? May swing by at the weekend before the photo charters next week!

 

Different weekends!

Tom

 

For this coming weekend, set A is five mark 1s (including the newly restored Bicester carriage) and set B is two Bulleids and two mark 1s. The GNR saloon is also out for private hire on Saturday.

Tom

 

Thank you kindly. Can you confirm that 73082, hauling the Wealdon Rambler, departs SP at 13:45 and completes the one round trip? TIA [BJ]