West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Whilst a useful resource, of which I was aware, I'm not sure it helps gather info about the various wagon groups and their contact details?

 

Our details won't be on there, it is not very up to date. Have made contact with @big.stu to pass on our details.

 

These database don't update themselves. . . people need to send updates as and when things change. So I expect the RHRP team would be happy to receive any updates you may be able to provide.

 

Interesting figures from the accounts published today:


During the year ended 31 March 2024, the Company incurred a post-tax loss of £422,690 (2023 - £216,317). This has reduced the cash reserves this year by £77,413 (2023 - decrease of £27,673). The current year loss does include an exceptional item for £210,000 for the recognition of the overhaul cost agreed post year end for Locomotive 53808.

I assume the £210k re. 53808 means that the WSR has effectively bought itself out of the previous agreement to overhaul the locomotive?

 

What is the current cash reserve

 

£405k down from £482k in 2023

 

What happened about the £500,000 a year required to fix the infrastructure?

 

It would be interesting t0 know how that figure of £210k was arrived at (though I'm sure we'll never know). It looks quite a low figure to return a large 2-8-0 back to running condition after a significant mileage (which I believe was in effect the contract requirement) but I suspect if you are the owner, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" - a six figure contribution now to what will probably be a rather higher six figure overhaul cost is probably better than an uncertain promise of a complete future overhaul.

Tom

 

It’s possible that this is materials. The assumption originally would no doubt have been that the labour would be “free” to the company as a mix of volunteer and paid staff at Minehead. Assuythat was the arrangement in the contract the company might be justified in saying £210k is our contribution net of labour

 

I gather that the formal announcement will be made shortly but that the terms have been agreed

 

If that amount is paid as a lump sum it’ll be very much a ‘bird in the hand’ since overhauls are generally carried out (and therefore funded) over several years. And the plc might not be in default of their obligations until the agreement expiry date in 2030, whereas the Trust presumably want to start the overhaul now.

The Trust also received the MHR steaming fees from the later years of the boiler certificate which, as previously agreed, would be deducted from the WSR plc’s liability.

 

All the way through this saga, I had the view that eventually some kind of cash deal would be done.

The exact amount is hard to determine for several reasons. Firstly, whether the eventual future overhaul got done by volunteers, paid staff at a railway workshop, or paid staff at an off-railway workshop would affect the cost. (In other words, the WSR may have based their view of the liability on the basis of this own paid staff doing the work, rather than someone else's paid staff).

Secondly, timescales can be elastic, but that affects both the amount and the real value of money.

Thirdly, "restored to running" is a somewhat nebulous concept: things you would probably address if the loco were being restored for your own use and you hoped for a reliable ten years might be cut if you were trying to off load a liability and just hand over a working loco. [Hypothetical example: suppose the tyres were within an estimated two years of scrapping. For your own loco, you'd almost certainly swap them, meaning taking the loco off its wheels, sending them away, buying new tyres etc. For a "restore and hand over as a running loco" you'd probably try not to do so - after all, the loco would run when handed over, but two years down the line the owner would have not just the cost of a new tyres, but also a long period out of traffic with a. ticking boiler ticket and considerable strip down / reassembly work to complete.]

Take all those together, and the fair cost to buy yourself out of a commitment is hard to quantify. On that basis, I suspect this is probably the best deal for all parties. It might not satisfy the "WSR must be seen to suffer for past sins" contingent, but in practical terms, the S&DRT have their loco, a good relationship with an appropriate host line and a substantial six figure sum in the bank; and the WSR are free from a future hard-to-quantify liability and - for their own needs, unproductive - future workshop occupancy, and can concentrate more fully on their own affairs.

Tom

 

I agree with @Jamessquared - cash settlement also seemed the most likely outcome from reading the last 2 Trust annual reports to the Charity Commission.

It’s also a fairly logical final consequence of any kind of historic ‘run then repair’ agreement. These may be fine until one or both parties want to end the arrangement but then ….. . I doubt any railway or loco owner would want this kind of uncertainty nowadays.

 

If they pay cash now then there are no further issues over the WSR finding itself financially embarrased in the future

 

Sadly there are numerous locos on other railways (not the WSR) where the run & repair (sometime never?) agreement is still in place. Quite a few are now static waiting.................

 

The inclusion of an exceptional loss of £210k in the p&l account does not mean £210k has changed hands or is going to in one lump sum in the near future.

 

I was also curious about how cash and accounting recognition might align


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The existence of a provision in the accounts is positive for all. I think where the S and D are concerned it is clearly a substantial contribution however one views it and frees them from the remainder of the contract presumably. For the WSR it is a cap on a liability.

I am not sure that @Miff is right that the MHR steaming fees were set off against the overhaul cost. That doesn’t quite fit with my recollection, but I could be wrong. It was a while ago.

With luck we will now get to see the engine running again ina few years.

 

Ah. Didn’t read the release. I thought it was a reference to the agreement reached in 2020.