Class 503 EMU

"No point, nothing but a bunch of standards" as a fellow trainspotter said to my dad in the 60s.at Nottingham station...

If I had a pint for everyone who has said "if only we'd known at the time..."

We don't know what will be wanted. I didn't think about a 4-VEP being preserved until I saw it. Doing the diesel day at Severn Valley, and the sound of a big diesel wurfling away at the front of a train of mark 2s and I was back to some big rail adventures I did as a kid with my dad. I didn't know it would do that.

We can't preserve everything, but the idea that there is "good history" and "bad history" for preservation purposes is a bad idea IMO.

I don't think any preserved railway has complete historical accuracy in any event, so that aspect doesn't bother me at all (frequencies, absence of: freight, smoking, workplace deaths, explosions, malnutrition, poverty, all conspire against an accurate recreation of the past).

The bigger issue will be the difficulty of running 12-car computer-controlled units on a branchline with mechanical signalling.

 

We have museum exhibits of quite a few old exSR units (BIL/COR/BEL/SUB/EPB) so a shame more interest couldn't have been found for the Merseyside set. I don't think a whole set is required nor a need to run but I would have hoped a city council or national rail museum would have wanted to keep a representative driver unit on behalf of the nation.
We should learn a lesson here and ensure the two halves of the SR DD units are given more focus. Would a Bluebell gauge allow them as novel towed stock?

 

And if you think the preservation movement is skint, look at local authorities...

 

It's dire isn't it - however NRM have seemingly found money to reduce the space it has for storing exhibits. In my mind safe storage with a hope of a brighter outcome is better than destroying an historical national artefact.

 

I think a little more context is required before you get too down beat. The problem here lies with the 503 and the project not connecting with those who have memories of the class and want to see an example saved. Remember HETT promoted this alongside its other unit, 4-SUB 4732, at the same time and the responses were totally different. The 750’Supply Scheme appeal for the SUB was fully subscribed to within 12 months and remains fully supported, so encouraging was this that the unit is going to be subject to a major fundraiser to have the first vehicle cosmetically restored for display at Margate.

now I appreciate that a 503 housed in Kent was always going to be something of a tough gig but it was undercover for the first time in over 30 years and had the best home it had ever had in preservation. Followers of the type should surely have realised this was also its last chance saloon (as it also was for the SUB) and failure meant it would be lost. Any ideas of bringing it back to Merseyside were total pipe dreams as repeated history had proven there was no where in that locale to house it and no one to run the project in that part of the world ever came forward.

The 503 fan base (which I appreciate is not that big) were faced with a choice of Margate or ‘in the skip’ and with the exception of 5 good people, they voted with their apathy for the skip.

 

Which is why those interested in EMUs should probably be taking serious looks at the viability of both batteries and DC wires...

I think "they should surely have realised this was its last chance" is placing too much blame on the outside enthusiasts who allegedly voted with their wallets. There was no suggestion until a month ago that the unit was at risk of scrap. With all due respect, if it had been stated a year ago that the unit was at risk of scrap if funding or a new home was not secured things might have turned out differently.

 

The Heritage Electric Trains Trust deserve full credit rather than brickbats for their efforts in trying to save these units. If it had not been for them these would have been scrapped years ago: as it is the money spent on them has mainly gone to where it has been stored and to haulage contractors.

The storage agreement at Llynclys is for ten years but with a five year review. So it is down to those who feel something should be done to a) actually do something themselves and b) fund raise for its keep and renovation.

Looking through the HETT website, Facebook page and the thread on Railforums they have been very open about their position. They have also been quite patient with their responses to those who expect other people to perform miracles.

 

There is a question though with electric units in particular of how you maintain them in the long term.

The discussions that have already gone on on NP highlight the fact that keeping an EMU in operational condition isnt easy.

As far as 'modern' equipment goes the problems get worse for both electric & diesel traction. Electronics, monocoque bodies, and the sheer size of modern D&EMU's create significant technical & logistical problems.

Imagine trying to run a 5 car IEP in preservation in 2074.

 

I see no brickbats, in fact I think most would absolutely commend the volunteer groups for doing their best and for so long. It may be that preservation to running order is a step too far and museum exhibition would be the better option, assuming a national interest could have found the funds.

 

Keeping old, pre-war EMUs operational definitely isn't easy but there are plenty of examples of stock being preserved which will not and cannot run again. There are three ex-Woodhead electrics in preservation that will never turn a wheel again as an example. A fourth is in an extensive museum in Utrecht (which probably could run again in NL).
Maybe the intention to preserve a whole set and restore to operational condition is simply unrealistic?
The collections of LT artefacts in Covent Garden and Acton museum as another example are not all operational and they have beautifully preserved a single W&C car - for posterity.
In the example of a 5 car IEP being preserved in the future, why not a driving car? We have precedents with Eurostar Class 373 in the NRM and APT in Crewe Heritage Centre. I doubt either would ever become operational again?

My point is that it's a shame that a City Transport museum per Manchester, Glasgow, Darlington, Swindon wasn't similarly convinced to preserve a Merseyside/Wirral example in Liverpool?

 

They're both pretty extraordinary in their own ways, with value/meaning beyond their status as 'EMUs' – our first connected international service, and first foray into truly high speed travel – and both have impact beyond the rail industry.

I'm not sure you could say that of the IEP which is essentially a refinement of what's gone before…

I'm not very familiar with the LT museum so can't really comment, but would only ask if it's credible for them to adopt a 'one of everything' approach indefinitely…?

Simon

 

If this is a reference to my post, I'm afraid I really don't see where the brickbats were...

 

Good points Simon and I would agree that some "EMUs' are/will be deemed more extraordinary than others, subjective as that might be. Who thinks an example of a Class 507/508 is sufficiently worthy?

Liverpool Transport Museum are like many, space constrained and have an example of Liverpool's Overhead Railway

I took a quick look at the Wirral's Tramway society and they don't seem to have had much luck in more recent times. I'm unclear whether the site is still open.

http://www.mtps.co.uk/about.htm

"Wirral Borough Council created The Wirral Transport Museum as a visitor attraction at Pacific Road in 1995, mainly through European funding.

Between 2008 and 2011 the future of the Museum and Tramway hung by a thread. There was constant talk of closure due to budget constraints. The Museum and Tramway were put up for sale by Wirral Borough Council in 2009 / 2010 and were almost bought by Merseytravel. They withdrew their interest at the 11th hour. In 2013 Wirral Borough Council officers approached volunteer groups with a view to inviting us to manage and operate the facility on behalf of the Council under an asset Transfer.

The museum closed on the 16th December 2017 to enable the museum to undergo major transformation. Many of the displays had to be dismantled and artefacts put into safe storage. The work was completed in early May which gave our volunteers very little time to rebuild displays and clean the museum of dust left after the buildimg work."

 

I didn't criticise your post otherwise I would have quoted it. The major source of after timing criticism is not surprisingly Facebook where a great deal of indignation has come from a minority along with plenty of 'helpful suggestions'.

 

Sadly I suspect any institution reliant on local authority spending that isn't directly providing frontline support (like health, infrastructure or essential services) is going to find the next decade at least extraordinarily difficult.

Libraries, theatres, galleries or museums that receive funding or support (eg cheap rent for public buildings) could easily find those lifelines disappearing and any asset – even those bolted down – that the authority has a stake in is at risk of being sold off.

The tories have decimated local authority spending power, and created an environment in which the limited funds available go nowhere near as far as they did pre-Brexit, pre-Kwartruss etc..

If it looks like a 'nice to have', I suspect it'll soon become a 'shame we haven't'.

Can't be sure that'll happen with Wirral or others, but I can imagine difficult questions will need to be asked.

Simon

 

The LT Museum though is LT's collection that runs on LT's tracks.

Blackpool ditto

 

Well, most of the LT Museum's collection doesn't run.

 

We at Cambrian Heritage Railways should probably also thank them for the use of the lorry delivering the HETT stock to Llynclys, then transferring our BSK to Oswestry. Thanks chaps.

 

Sarah Siddons and the 38 stock do, the Q-stock is being restored so as to allow it, the standard stock might. Not bad at all considering they don't have any quiet branchlines to play on.

And there's the small matter of running a steam-hauled train through the middle...

 

I agree, they’ve done well with Sarah, the ‘38, the 4TC and all the steam events. Sadly steam on the Met and District is no longer possible due to incompatibility with the upgraded signalling, which also restricts where the other heritage stock can run.