RTC 2024

RTC are getting a wee bit hostile. I got a 'we don't guarantee which steam locomotive will be used, if any, and we can substitute a diesel under our T&Cs. We don't mention stock, so don't have to contact passengers to tell them the stock for the WCME on Saturday will be Mk2 Air con stock rather than the usual Mk1s with opening toplights and panoramic windows'. In fact a reread of their T&Cs is a bit of an eye opener. There are no guarantees at all; and refunds will only be made if RTC cancel a tour. The worst in the business by a country mile.

 

Thanks......oh dear.

 

Whether they change that stance is all down to the reaction from passengers tomorrow. If most people on tomorrow's trip are happy and don't raise any complaints, then nothing will happen. It's only if there is a mass uproar and the stewards spend all day dealing with a whole train full of angry passengers that anything will happen. Personally, I suspect it will be the former, leading to Mk2s generally becoming accepted as the norm from now on. I myself don't mind them, and wouldn't kick up a fuss about them. I'm not on tomorrow's trip but it will be interesting to see what the mood is like on board.

 

I travel with them more than WCR these days to be honest. The Mk2s on their Statesman set are some of the nicest Mk2s I've ever travelled on.

 

I've got friends on tomorrow's trip and they are just thankful they've got steam and the coaches whilst a negative, not being to hear the loco if they are the later Mk 2s, are the least of the problem. And that too is my take on events. It's the steam haulage I want and have paid for. This problem has been aired for some weeks and I would have expected RTC to have been more open with the passengers.

 

People travel from around the world for that trip, RTC are still advertising it so you should be OK. In the worst case you will get your money back

 

With the Invoice is a letter saying it is confirmed as running along with routes and overnight stay towns/cities.

 

Is it much different to this from Steam Dreams though? I assume Saphos will be identical but could not find anything on that website.

17) Important Information – All details about our tours are offered in good faith and whilst we endeavour to run our tours to the proposed routes, timings, rolling stock, locomotives, itineraries, station stops and options in place, we reserve the right to alter these at any time and shall not incur any liability to any person who has bought, or contracted to buy a ticket, or tickets as a result of any such changes.

4) Locomotives

On steam hauled tours every effort is made to run with the advertised locomotive however, in times of difficulty such as high fire risk, locomotive failure or restrictions imposed by Network Rail or other third parties Steam Dreams Rail Co. Ltd. reserve the right to substitute locomotives as necessary, including substituting a steam locomotive with a diesel locomotive. This will only be considered as a last resort.

If the removal of a steam locomotive is necessary due to third party action outside of our organisation within 72 hours of a trip no compensation will be offered if the trip is hauled by a diesel or electric locomotive

In all other cases if a diesel engine is used as a replacement for a steam locomotive customers will be offered the following compensation:

Day Trips

Part refund

Pullman £30pp, First Class £20pp, Premium Standard £15pp

or discount off a future trip

Pullman £60pp, First Class £40pp, Premium Standard £30pp

Lunchtime & Evening Circulars

Part refund

Pullman £15pp, First Class £10pp, Premium Standard £5pp

or discount off a future trip

Pullman £30pp, First Class £20pp, Premium Standard £10pp

 

Yes currently there is usually a MK2 in the set for standard class. Although I believe that’ll change when the last pair of MK1s is done.

I don’t see the issue myself. If you’re 10 back behind Tangmere, the chances of hearing it are slim anyway so a MK2 makes little difference. The train is running and that’s what counts

 

I think you’ll be fine in terms of the train running. Might not be MK1s and Met-Cam Pullmans but I think it will run unaffected. Let’s be honest the last thing both RTC and WCR will want is to cancel their flagship tour.

Locos might be a bit thin on the ground though if it is MK2s. Tangmere, maybe a pair of the Riley fives (Assuming the 3rd is in Scotland)….Be ideal if 6233 and 60009 were still running but currently it’s a bit thin on the ground.

 

I mean it’s fairly standard stuff accross the board really. The only exception is the Belmond Pullman, where the literally state that you will be in a Pullman Car regardless and if something prevents that they will refund.

Take the Northern Belle - WCR don’t guarantee you a MK2 pullman. Could easily be a Met Cam.

LSL - They don’t Guarnatee you a MK1 FO on Steam jobs. Could easily be a statesman MK2.

Similarly with the loco they don’t guarantee and actually that’s not a bad thing. People booking for specific locos is always a risk, particularly with how temperamental these things are.

Thing is the vast majority really won’t be bothered what the stock is.

The loco makes a slight be more difference but even then, do many care? The LSL English Riv model is the prime example….7/8 hours diesel haulage for 3/4 hours steam. But nobody really cares. They just enjoy the whole day.

 

On a steam-hauled trip, hearing the loco is a significant part of the experience for me. You can't hear it all the time, so I get frustrated if people around me continue to chatter at the times when it can be heard. If I am not going to be able to hear a steam loco, I don't see much point in having it there. For me, therefore, the rolling stock with or without opening windows will be a significant consideration in whether to book a railtour.

There is also the matter of temperature. Mk Is can be unpleasantly hot on a summer's day, but Mk IIs with broken aircon are worse.

 

CVR have aquired what is said to be a Mk2 and it looks to me as if it has opening windows.

 

The early Mk2s had opening vent lights like VT use but the later ones were AC and sealed. According to my friend in today’s CME the Mk2 set is ‘sealed’ windows. And air braked only. Is Tangmere the only loco WCR have that is air braked and if so can RTC shop around but who to?

 

45212 would be a good bet.

 

I too am booked on GB16. One of the selling points was the wesbite specifically states "Allocated seat in a British Railway MK1 first class open carriage" which other tours with them do not

 

I really not sure what people expect RTC to do, cancel every trip and refund everyone until a rake of Mk 1s is available?? Don't think they would last very long in business somehow.
Once again, this is not RTC's fault.

 

Exactly. I think too many people forget that actually this period of MK2/Air Brake/Diesel on the back we are passing through is keeping the business going for future when the MK1s are back again….

I mean I actually can’t see what people expect…

1) Cancel everything till the MK1s are back - RTC have no income and go bust, WCR have no income to fit the CDL and really it’s just generally a crap situation.

2) RTC pair up with another TOC but realistically who? VT don’t do enough to run a programme like RTC and LSL are so busy you can’t ever see them wanting external work. Plus in both cases they have MK2 usage and diesels on the back so everyone would be up in arms!

3) WCR purchase a generator car/pay to fix their own to remove the diesel element….This then takes a coach for passengers out of the train which is not going to help pay, and also takes up finances and resources better used on CDL.

Honestly though, I don’t think the logical view will ever be seen by some

 

Absolutely agree it’s not RTC’s fault. I’ve be been travelling with them home and abroad since their first year. However, I can’t afford the £7,000+ it’s going to cost this house if it’s not, within reason, what I’ve paid for on GB16.