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FR & WHR & WHHR News

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by AndrewT, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Nexuas

    Nexuas Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Nexuas

    Nexuas Well-Known Member

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    FR moving pictures footage of 590 launch

    I love how the drone shots make it look like a 009 layout!!!
     
  3. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    At one point in the video (I didn't note where exactly, but I think during the testing at Boston Lodge) there is water coming out of the drain cocks, possibly more than might be expected from condensation. Then at 23:36 there is visible water from the chimney. Is 590 particularly prone to priming or is it just that crews need to get used to it?

    A while ago, the co-operation now existing between the FR/WHR and WHHR would have seemed a dream.
     
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  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I didn't notice anything untoward. A significant amount of water often accumulates in the upper part of a cylinder as it is sloping away from the drain cocks, unlike the lower half of the cylinder where any water will drain away under gravity if the cocks are open. The ejection of water up the chimney is probably due to condensation in the exhaust passages which are not drained in any way. As the regulator is opened, this water is picked up by the exhaust steam and ejected up the chimney. No amount of blowing through to warm things up or use of drain cocks will totally eliminate it. It's a common thing with many locomotives. Even BR standards do it; at least all the ones I'm familiar with do. Whilst on this subject a lot of industrial locos with slide valves do not have cylinder drain cocks, only being fitted with steam chest cocks. Any water in the cylinders is then either ejected up the chimney or into the steam chest by forcing the valve off its seat. Cylinder drain cocks only become absolutely necessary with piston valves. 590 has cylinder cocks, though, so it's not relevant here.
     
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  5. James Hewett

    James Hewett New Member

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    The WHR 100 timetable is up on the F&WHR website. No details of locos or stock are shown - but if you cross-reference with the previously-published info. you can work out most of that.
    Interesting - and gratifying - to see that all trains - including the 'ordinary' services on WHR (NB not all of these are accessible using gala tickets) - stop at Cyffordd Pen-y-Mount Junction. No services on WHHR are shown, but hopefully there will be intensive shuttles which will encourage lots of train-changing at PYM. I for one will try, among all the other delights, to make sure to do just that (change from a standard RhE service onto the WHHR at the Junction) just to say I've done it.....
    The forecast by the way, is damp - but that's better than the extreme drought we have at present - that drought, if extended, might make the entire Gala difficult to run safely.....
    James
    WHR 100 timetables.jpg
     
  6. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The split between "green" trains, where WHR100 tickets are valid and "red" ones where they are not seems almost like two different events happening in parallel, the centenary event for one set of customers and an ordinary day of service trains for others.
    I can see the 1245 from Minfordd on the Saturday being packed, as the only train due to run non-stop through Harbour Station; likewise the green trains through to/from Caernarfon only on the Sunday.
     
  7. LittleRedTrain

    LittleRedTrain Member

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    Very similar to last year's Bygones Weekend where event rover holders were not able to use the 'service trains' to Blaenau, only the specials.
    This restricted the opportunities to stop off enroute for photos/food and use a later train. Also didn't help with one of the event trains being terminated at TyB as Palmerston ran out of puff!

    Given the price of the rovers, it would've been nice if the service trains could've been run with only half reserved for 'pre-bookef' customers and the rest available for all.

    I'm up there for a few days so may just book a separate 'Mountain Spirit' run earlier in the week so I can do the whole FR once!
     
  8. James Hewett

    James Hewett New Member

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    Yep -- agreed. FR's opinion has always been that they run their services primarily for "non-enthusiasts" (which they reckon to be 97% of passengers) - and those are the core business and have to be catered for - whereas it's the enthusiasts who enjoy galas (which traditionally don't make much profit, although I understand that both the 2019 and 2022 combined F&WHR and WHHR galas were financially successful). So that community - who, by and large, probably want to see 'traditional' locos upfront (and ideally historically-appropriate ones) have to be fitted in around the normal services. In the current conditions (the sky-high train running costs highlighted by Mr Lewin recently) you can see the point of that. And yes, I am sure you are right about those services - we'll need to be VERY early!

    One possible difficulty with the traditional gala envisaged here (a complex web of interconnecting trains - and in this case run by two different organisations) is that most passengers - enthusiast and non-enthusiast alike - have got used to the "experience" mode of travel (turn up, booked in advance, at one station, take a train to another station, and return -- then move on to another attraction) - so there may be less flexibility in changing than is now thought - for example, if you wish to travel to Beddgelert behind 590 in the WHHR Heritage Train there seem to be only two opportunities - so of course we will want to start at Port., or risk the service being full by Pen-y-Mount......

    It'll be very interesting to see how it all pans out. It will hopefully inform FR's operations dept. a great deal about the practicalities of making PYM Junction a regular RhE request stop in future (a seeming no-brainer).
    James
     
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  9. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Prior to covid it was usual for an event day to at least one normal service running in it's normal time slot. This was so you can still sell some seats to the coach parties at whatever rate they normally pay. You could still travel on these trains with event rovers or even walk up and buy the everyday fare for just this train. Although it sometimes seemed to get in the way of a good timetable it doesn't seem especially difficult or controversial.

    The bizzare thing about this event is that on the Friday the WHR is often not running or only does Caernarfon - Beddgelert. So they are running two full line trains they wouldn't normally run because there isn't demand. Then charging people £70 plus to not travel on them. Then for some reason on Sunday you can travel on them.
     
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It's clear from the website that you can book in advance for the regular service trains but not obvious that you can't pay on the day. Is that indeed not possible?
     
  11. Nexuas

    Nexuas Well-Known Member

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    The Sunday full line trains are part of the event (think mini superpower) there are double headed NGG16’s and mixed trains, plus the Russell and Lyd train. They do not have the usual layovers at each end so will not appeal to “Joe public”. I am surprised to have the full line trains excluded from the event ticket on Fri/Sat as we had discussed this in an early fare setting meeting, it maybe that they have sold very well in their own right and the fear is there may not be the step on, step off capacity.
     
  12. meeee

    meeee Member

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    You can pay at the booking office or even pay the guard at intermediate stations. For reasons unknown they are not making that obvious.
     
  13. LNERandBR

    LNERandBR New Member

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    It's because they are pushing the 'experience' out and back style trains. That is where all their marketing focus lies.

    The only advertising I've seen is in the videos mentioned in this thread previously where Mr Lewin points out it exists in response to continued social media messages saying it doesn't. I fear they are in a perpetual losing situation, if they continue to not advertise the 'hop on and off' option people will assume it's not there. However, if they advertise it I assume they are worried about capacity for that on the services. Possibly even worried that it would reduce the number of bookings on the 'experience' services.

    Honestly, I've given up being upset by their continued focus on pre-booking out and back experence trains now, as a FR Society member I use my travel privileges but if I wasn't I'd likely not visit.
     
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  14. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    I don’t envy the FR management their task. I am really not sure that any pattern of behaviour has yet emerged post covid. The pre book and shorter/fewer service patterns still might make sense.

    If I had a question it would be about the presentation of the range of services. It is really quite hard to decipher what is running on any given day. If I as an interested person find it a challenge, then does it put off others? The stats from web site usage would be difficult, but useful to analyse as I am sure the management must. I don’t have a suggestion for making the website and booking system clearer either, because the back end of the booking system will not be making that job easy and will be restricting the options for presentation.

    I was in Beddgelert on Friday. Village was pretty busy, though not hugely so (there was some space in the car parks). The one train from Caernarfon ran in and from a brief glance was maybe 50% full. Does this support the policy of a limited service or not?
     
  15. RedDragonofLondon

    RedDragonofLondon New Member

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    Calendar - Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railways (festrail.co.uk)

    There is a calendar view which is somewhat helpful for seeing what runs each day.
     
  16. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    I know. But it doesn’t have all the times visible and you have to be able to remember what each of the names mean to know what the service is. So if you start your exploration here it can leave you wondering what you are buying. If you know which journey you want, you can’t go from the description of the service directly to when that service next runs or indeed see a pattern for when the services run. All the answers are there somewhere, but it isn’t easy.
     
  17. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

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    Welsh Pony has been turned today to face Caernarfon for the WHR 100 event. Additionally 794 / 590 will no longer be working any shuttles to Minffordd due to loading gauge issues but will still be in action on the WHHR and WHR over the event.
     
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  18. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

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    The public timetables now state that travel is permitted on the Friday and Saturday between Porthmadog and Beddgelert on the Garratt hauled service trains for those with a One or Three Day Rover ticket. I'm unable to attach the image, but it is available to see on the F&WHR website.
     
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  19. Woof Mk2

    Woof Mk2 Member

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    They dont make it easy to plan a trip involving NR as well.
    Does anyone know if there is just a normal timetable available?
     
  20. RedDragonofLondon

    RedDragonofLondon New Member

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    For the daily service? You can cross-reference the timetable with the calendar.

    For WHR100, see here
     

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