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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    There are enough demonstrations in the UK already taking place. These would only bring the L&B into disrepute: just the thing to cheer up the objectors to the line.
     
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  2. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    Theatrics.

    What you need to do is to think about poll votes. My understanding (and I might have misremembered it, so check) is that these are taken by a show of hands in the room. Proxies are not eligible for a poll vote. But everything must be backed by 5% of the people in the room. So put forward a resolution on the day for whatever you like. It has to be accepted if 5% in the room agree. Then you can demand a poll vote on it which, again, is only for those in the room. You need to look at the details both in your own M&As and in the Act.
    And don't forget that the members present can direct that a meeting is adjourned. I guess by "direct" it means that a majority in the room support an adjournment.

    Ian
     
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  3. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    Not quite, Ian, the Articles say :
    "13. A resolution put to the vote of a meeting shall be decided on a show of hands
    unless before, or on the declaration of the result of, the show of hands a poll is duly
    demanded. Subject to the provisions of the Act a poll may be demanded:
    (1) by the chairman; or
    (2) by at least two members having the right to vote at the meeting; or
    (3) by a member or members representing not less than one- tenth of the total voting
    rights of all the members having the right to vote at the meetings.
    14. Unless a poll is duly demanded a declaration by the chairman that a resolution
    has been carried or carried unanimously, or by a particular majority, or lost, or not
    carried by a particular majority and an entry to that effect in the minutes of the
    meeting shall be conclusive evidence of the fact without proof of the number or
    proportion of the votes recorded in favour of or against the resolution.
    "

    and : "25. Any member of the Trust entitled to attend and vote at a General Meeting shall
    be entitled to appoint another member as his proxy to attend and vote instead of him
    and any proxy so appointed shall have the same right as the member to speak at the
    Meeting.
    26. On a poll votes may be given either personally or by proxy. An instrument
    appointing a proxy shall be in the usual form or such form as the Trust shall approve.
     
  4. Widge

    Widge New Member

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    I hope everyone who attends the AGM goes into it without too many preconceptions and listens carefully to what the Board has to say before deciding how to vote and what questions they would like to ask. Turning the whole thing into a bunfight from the word go will not benefit anyone.

    We can all acknowledge that mistakes were made with the ENPA planning being allowed to lapse and whether this was entirely down to the failure of the Trustees or whether they were receiving poor guidance from professional (and no doubt expensive) consultants is unclear. As for the Anne Belsey affair, I simply don't know enough about the background to it to make an informed judgement of the rights and wrongs and I doubt many other ordinary L&B members do either.

    Looking to the future, I'm not sure that "Option "C" which was endorsed by the Board on the Members' ballot is a particularly good idea, but it is the option for an extension plan which was democratically favoured by nearly 93% of those who voted. Those of us who remain sceptical and voted otherwise need to respect that vote and acknowledge that the Board has a mandate to proceed down that course.

    There seem to be some on this forum who wish to bring the current Board down no matter what, and whilst I agree with some of that criticism, it seems churlish to me to hammer them even for the acquisition of Blackmoor Station and for employing an engineering fitter, both of which are positive actions which I think deserve commendation. The L&B is also one of the railways which has not so far gone down the route of changing its Articles so that new Trustees can only be selected by existing Trustees, as witnessed by the welcome appointment of Chris Duffell last year.


    I urge the membership to be very careful and take a balanced view; the L&B is very weak and vulnerable at present and with no sign of an alternative board waiting in the wings, destroying the current one completely could easily leave a power vacuum and send the railway into a death spiral. Reform might be better than replace given the fragility of the organisation, so why don't we go into the AGM without prejudice and give everyone a fair hearing?
     
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  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I shall be at the AGM, and intend to give the board a fair hearing for precisely the reasons that you suggest. However, that fair hearing will be in the spirit of a juror listening to (and for?) the defence case where a strong prosecution case has been advanced and from where it is hard to see how a reasonable defence may be mounted.

    I have major concerns about four items:
    1. The handling of the AGM notices and trustee nominations, in the context of the Trust's Memorandum and Articles of Association
    2. The manner and use of disciplinary processes against a volunteer
    3. The ability of the Trust, as currently run, to deliver "Plan C" given the outcome of the S.73 application
    4. Linked to the three factors listed above, the ability of the present board to manage disagreement
     
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  6. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Well-Known Member

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    I know everyone has other things on their mind and this is off topic - but I thought you would like to know that Rother Valley Railway have been granted their TWAO.
     
  7. gwralatea

    gwralatea Member

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    Just on this bit - this is what really worries me. A cursory glance back at my posts on this thread would show that I share some of your concerns, but...

    as far as I know no one actually commenting (for or against the trust) on these pages is actually a lawyer, let alone one specialising in the particular bit of the law we're dealing with here.

    I don't say that to discredit anyone at all (see my second sentence), but as far as I can see the 'strong prosecution case' has been advanced by a load of semi-anonymous posters egging each other on on the internet rather than by anyone from either a police or legal background actually assembling a case.

    To be honest the main reason I've not weighed in more is because I've got just enough legal experience to know that I don't know what I'm talking about and not comfortable playing judge, jury and executioner when the case assembled may very well have hold of the wrong end of the stick...

    =
     
  8. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    While I can see this, there is still the matter of being honest about all of the above and I for one will still find it hard to trust them after all of this.

    Talking about no one appears to wants to be Trustees, the question needs to be asked, has anyone really tried to find new fresh trustees? I don't recall one advert in the house magazine asking for members to apply to become a trustee or to find out what it all entails. the same also goes for CIC Directors.

    I am sure that if there was an advert for members to apply for either a Trustee or a Company director, I bet you will get one maybe two inquires.

    But when you have a situation which goes deeper than that, well then you do have a problem. The big issue if you like is one of a lack of a good group culture 'ask not what the L&BR trust can do for you – but ask what you can do for your railway trust' comes to mind.

    As I see it, you will only get out what you want to put in, is it just too much to ask that we set high standards of governance of this whole project? the old saying of you can not please all the people all the time is so true. But at the same time you don't want to p** off your supporters either, there is a fine line to walk with this one.

    The one thing that the L&BR Trust needs to work on is just how do they start to engage with the membership. Part of me hopes that those that go to the AGM will have their eyes wide open enough to ask for a change of direction. If you like, become more professional with how you carry out the various tasks.

    All of this, cannot be undertaken by just one or two people, but by the whole group and it will not be done overnight either but over a couple of years at least.
     
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  9. DaveE

    DaveE Member

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    That is great news and is an important development which may help us in the future. Well done Rvr!
     
  10. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Which is why I framed my comment as I did; the commentary on here has been pretty one-sided. I'm unclear as to why that is, but suspect the natural bias of an online forum with a degree of "party line" will be one factor.

    However, I happen to believe that this is less a matter of law than one of power and politics, and that the key outcome is not so much a legal one about whether the meeting is ultra vires, as a practical one about the approach to be taken to the future of the L&B. The trustees may or may not be justified in their view of who should be on the board, just as they may or may not be justified in their view that the one "external" nominee for the board has breached confidence and should be disciplined. The problem is the way that these have been combined in a way that coincidentally tends to reinforce the control of the existing board.

    Similarly, I lack the detailed knowledge to know whether plan C is or isn't the right one to follow, and respect the validity of a poll of all members to help inform that choice. However, when the consultation questions are heavily loaded, and there are no answers to serious questions, I struggle to know how to react to the resulting decisions.

    That one of the trustees should come out publicly against the form of the consultation, and be on the record about how meetings have been conducted, is to say the least not conducive to trust.

    Leaders need followers if they are to lead effectively. Trustees need to have the trust of those they lead. Right now, trust is in short supply, and it's far from clear that the leaders command the assent of those they might lead.
     
  11. gwralatea

    gwralatea Member

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    As far as the bit in bold I agree with you, but a leisurely perusal of the last few (dozen) pages of the thread, with everything from suggestions of active resistance/protest through to complaining to the Charity Commission suggests that you and I might be in a minority there.

    On your last sentence, I think the cold hard reality of postal voting is very likely to suggest that overwhelming numbers do in fact assent to the leadership of the current trustees. That's without prejudice to whether those people are well or badly informed, whether they care or not, etc. But the shouting about trust in the Trust including from me is very likely an unrepresentative minority at the moment.
     
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  12. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    The Board may well have a 'mandate', but its responsibility is to manage the Charity in the best interests of achieving its Charitable Objectives, even if - in so doing- it has to go against the wishes of the members. I've not seen enough evidence yet from the Board that they have thought sufficiently long and hard about whether Option C is the *right thing to do at this time*, rather than simply the easiest/quickest way to show some signs of progress to satisfy disappointed members.
     
  13. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    If you want singing, maybe "She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes..." (with apologies to Anne :) )
     
  14. The Terminator

    The Terminator New Member

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    You may be interested in this paragraph from the definitive guide to Membership Charities RS7 published by the Charity Commission. Note the concluding sentence.

    "Powers to exclude from membership are fiduciary in nature and must therefore be exercised according to the purposes for which they were conferred in good faith in the interests of the charity and satisfy the rules of natural justice. Trustees cannot use these legal rules to adopt an arbitrary method of implementing a membership policy so as to ensure (for example) that the membership does not contain people that might oppose their views."
     
  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I agree. However, and unlike another matter not so far away from Lynton, this is not at core a matter of integrity in the way that the issues with the WSRA are. I have no doubt that the trustees are doing what they believe to be their best for the purposes of the Trust and the L&B as a whole.

    That difference is significant, because it means that there is scope for change that doesn't have to challenge individuals in the way that the WSRA fiasco did.
    I am, and I am inclined to share your doubts on motive. My comment is merely an observation that I retain an open mind, but that this would depend on a case being articulated.
     
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  16. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Meanwhile, very encouraging news from the Rother Valley Railway, as reported in their own thread.
    Five years since the application was submitted in 2018 and 20 months since the public inquiry closed the Secretary of State has at last granted their TWAO application including compulsory-purchase powers necessary for the route (affecting two parcels of land where the owners objected). Although no-one wants to use CP powers unless there is absolutely no alternative this decision, as I've suggested before, sets a very important precedent for the future reinstatement of other heritage railways including the L&B.
     
  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I wonder how the award of a TWAO for the RVR might change things, both in terms of how the L&B trustees are perceived and the objectors view things
     
  18. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Great news for the RVR/KESR, bu I'm not sure that it is really relevant to the current L&B situation. The L&B TWAO has been in preparation for several years, but I don't think it is yet close to being applied for.
     
  19. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    I have just read the RVR TWAO Order Decision and I think that it definitely should inform the L&BR particularly concerning the scope and depth of surveys and studies that will be required for a TWAO application. Paragraphs 94 and 95 concern Funding. These are required reading for all concerned with the L&BR.
     
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  20. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Well-Known Member

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    I live close to the RVR - my son lives in Robertsbridge - and I virtually attended some of the Public Inquiry. The one thing that stuck me is how much this must have cost both to RVR and to the landowners. I think that the L and B need to think very carfully before embarking on this route. Social media has gone mad with suggestions of corruption in High Places.
     
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