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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Actually I’m pretty sure originally 5080 & 5043 were the pair bought for spares and 7027 was bought with restoration in mind. Indeed some work took place in the late 70s/early 80s to this end.
     
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  2. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    I remember that Tyseley had bought a pair for spares. I at first got Earl of Mount Edgcome mixed up with Earl Bathurst at Didcot.
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    a point made by @1472 at the outset and sadly still missing

    7027 was indeed bought for restoration with 5080 and 5043 the spares engines . The desire to have a "GWR" castle swung the restoration pendulum in favour of 5080 . 5043 became a project impossible which proved very much to be project possible
     
  4. 5801

    5801 Member

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    Didcot will be lining up four restored Castles side-by-side on 4 March.

    https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/...vent-4-march/da71c2231d812c232e518847e82d7888

    Depending on your viewpoint, that says either (1) wouldn't five look even better or (2) with that many (and there are two more elsewhere) why put a lot of effort into producing another when there are so many more deserving causes, on and off the railways.

    There's no right answer, but I think it would be hard to persuade a hypothetical young(er) enthusiast that fundraising for this is what they should devote their efforts to for the next ten years.
     
  5. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    There's a real concerted effort on here of late to persuade us all that this locomotive isn't worth saving.

    I've read everything from younger people haven't got time/don't want to/too many castles/where have those voices gone who were so indignant. All a bit of a fallacy really.

    I think if it was thought to have been a complete no hoper, and wasn't worth the effort, the GCR wouldn't have started any work on it, at all, in the first place. A fact that seems to have been missed by most of those of late (or ignored?)

    There were (still are?) some parties trying to find out what of 7027 is actually available to purchase, and what is negotiable. No more information has been released from any side. If something is happening, I am sure the usual outlets will let us know if anything changes.

    For myself, I've kept my head firmly down since November and I won't be getting involved. I do however regret how things have played out in the last year and I would still like to see the locomotive get its chance in someone's overhaul queue.
     
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  6. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The major difference between then and now of course is that then, there was a single private financier willing to stump up most (all?) of the cash himself. That is a significantly different prospect to trying to find that money in multiples of £10 notes or whatever. The engineering challenge might not have changed, but the financial one is vastly different.
     
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  7. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    There was a web page for 7027, it closed a few months ago. It had nearly 1600 names but very little in the way of donations it seems.
    I don't believe the majority of the cash was proposed, just a proportion of that needed and it was hoped that it was augmented by others. That's how I read JJP's comments anyway.
     
  8. ianh

    ianh Member

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    Didnt a Broken Smokebox Saddle have some bearing in the decision ;-)
     
  9. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    https://www.4709.org.uk/
    <Ducks and runs for cover!> :D
     
  10. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    That was not the web page that I referred to. That is 4709's appeal.
     
  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    do you mean the facebook page for those who were restoring the engine at the GCR to keep everyone up to date with the projecthttps://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100036159102918

    That was never for soliciting donations to finance its acquisition
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    All it needs is for the GWS to publicly announce that the engine will not be broken up, for any other project, but will be restored in its own right, and to then launch an appeal for help and funding to enable this to be done, and a separate appeal for a new build boiler of the correct type for the Night Owl .
     
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  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    that I have never heard and the current restoration hasn't thrown that up either
     
  14. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    The GWS absolutely doesn't need the distraction of another Castle, and I rather imagine they wish the mess had never been kicked off by the 4709 group.

    In these days it is not hard to set up a fund with suitable protections to take pledges or cash towards a restoration. And publicising such and accepting money has never been easier. If another group or individual kicks off a project I'm sure they'd be delighted to receive a cheque and a list of potential supporters. But the one thing that is certain is that if everyone wrings their hands and says someone should do something then nothing will happen.
     
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  15. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    Indeed the front smokebox saddle of Thornbury is broken, but it is only the top rear corner and if the broken part is still in hand it could be stitch welded very easily or a new corner made.
    DSCF7541s.jpg
     
  16. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I was perusing my facebook feed today . Railway after railway , group after group seeking volunteers .

    reading this thread throws up various reasons why people can't volunteer .

    we must all have a preserved line within a stones through from most of us . Even if you can only spare a day a month , its still another 12 volunteer days a year

    The movement and all of those involved need to stop finding reasons not to do things and find the drive to do things
     
  17. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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  18. ianh

    ianh Member

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    Thanks for the confirmation, saves digging out photos from the period --- I think it was 83-85 when a boiler lift was attempted ... and that pushed 7027 down the list and 5080 up the list.....
     
  19. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    It's never that simple, I'm afraid. I've previously worked as a professional volunteer manager in the heritage sector; but I'm also a millenial, with some previous experience of railway volunteering, but also with a highly precarious career which has involved frequent moves around the country. So, I've seen this problem from both sides of the fence.

    Young people today generally have less time to offer and are looking for more flexible volunteering opportunities. But the hard-pressed volunteer manager really needs people who can make a regular commitment. At the very least, they need to know in advance how many volunteers are actually going to show up on any particular day, and what their capabilities are, so that they can plan suitable jobs for them to do. Otherwise, you can guarantee that either a.) not enough people show up when you need them; or b.) too many people show up on certain days and there are not enough suitable jobs for them to do, with the inevitable result that some of them get fed up, leave and never come back.

    It should also be borne in mind that kids today are less likely to be taught practical skills like woodwork or metalwork in school. Of course, a certain amount of knowledge can be picked up "on the job" in the workshop, but I suspect that a lack of confidence deters many young people from applying in the first place. Plus, of course, the more limited a volunteer's skillset, the fewer jobs they can actually do, thus making it harder for the long-suffering volunteer manager to find any useful work for them. In such cases, the volunteer can actually become more of a hinderance than a help: the unfortunate manager has to waste time finding some non-job to keep them occupied. I've tried volunteering at a couple of SG lines in the past, both of which seemed to work on the basis of "rock up at the workshop on Tuesday morning and we'll find you a job to do". Personally, I think this model is not going to be viable for much longer.

    I suspect that, if heritage railways are going to attract new blood into their workshops - and get any useful work out of them - then they are going to have to start offering more structured training opportunities. But of course, if you're going to invest time and resources in training volunteers, you want to be sure that you'll get some return on that investment - in other words, that the volunteer won't just leave once they've finished the training. But how do you square that with the gig economy, in which the young professional is probably working a series of ix-month contracts, and may have to suddenly up sticks and move to another part of the country to pursue a new job?

    There have been occasional mutterings in the past about some kind of "skills passport" for heritage railways; something that would allow volunteers to transfer to a new heritage line and start volunteering in a similar role with a minimum of retraining. Whilst this idea was primarily intended for operational roles, I see no reason why it couldn't be applied to the workshop as well. If a volunteer can turn up at a new line with a passport from their previous one, setting out their skills, the training they've completed and the work they've done previously, then I suspect the new manager will be able to integrate them into the team and start getting useful work out of them far more quickly than is currently the case. And it would give the volunteer the confidence that, if they're willing to show up and do the neccessary training, they won't have to start again at the bottom of the ladder if they have to transfer to a new line. Indeed, they could potentially move around several different railways whilst working their way through a set of standardised training courses.

    In the past, people have generally sucked their teeth and put skills passports into the "too difficult" category. I appreciate there are practical difficulties in implementing such a scheme, but I think it is something that our movement must seriously consider if we are to adapt to the changing realities of the 21st-century world.

    As for Thornbury Castle specifically: people say they would donate to an appeal if there was one. But that's the point: you need somebody who's in a position to step forward and take on that leadership role, to take the initiative and organise enough support to get an appeal off the ground. It's going to become harder and harder to find people who have enough time and energy to take on that kind of role as a purely voluntary activity. Hence, I think we need to be realistic about how many restoration projects the movement can actually sustain. I've said it before and I'll say it again: we already have seven restored Castles in preservation. Do we really need an eighth? Even if I had the time and energy to organise an appeal for Thornbury, frankly, I wouldn't bother. I'd rather throw that time and energy into supporting a carriage restoration project. As the Bluebell's recent disposals have shown, there's an awful lot of pre-nationalisation rolling stock still at risk, much of it far more historically important than Thornbury. And whilst we've proved that new-build locomotives are possible, new-build wooden-bodied coaches are a much more difficult proposition, because many of them were built from exotic hardwoods which are no longer available. In short: we could build another Thornbury if we wanted to, but it would be much harder to build a new Maunsell coach (for example).

    And before anyone accuses me of hypocrisy: I have recently got involved with one carriage group, albeit in a very small way; and I've put out feelers to another. You see, I am trying to do what I can, within the constraints of the limited time I have to offer. I also volunteer occasionally on one of the Welsh lines, although the travelling distance from my current home makes it impractical for me to visit as often as I would like.
     
  20. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    When I stop wanting to have a roof over my head and food on the table Martin, I’ll be in touch with you if that’s ok?
    Seriously with my current job there’s no way I’m able to give a voluntary project the work it respects after 5 nights and a possible day shift.
    I can’t give much practical help as in being a pair of hands on location, but I’m more than happy for anyone to get in touch with me and ask me for advice in my own particular field, as I’ve said in the past I’m also happy to chuck a few quid towards various projects that interest me.
    Unfortunately some of us live in a very nice but very expensive city, we also don’t have as many Heritage Railways that are a ‘stones throw’ away from us being able to volunteer on.
    Please don’t knock those that of us that can’t volunteer at the moment some of us genuinely can’t.

    I personally had a very emotional moment with 20048 last summer regarding several happy moments I’ve had with that loco and the work I’d done on it in the past with someone we both knew.

    I’ve done my physical bit in the past, as have my parents at a location I believe you currently volunteer at Martin, (remember that the next time you see something in the platform there) I can’t do it at the present, so I’ll try and do my bit in other ways.
    I just hope that’s ok with some of you.
    Matt
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
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