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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Is that wise , especially if those responsibilties/risks include the commercial aspects of the hospitality element?
     
  2. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    And, while respecting the confidentiality around the deal that is currently in place, there are duties on those selling shares and seeking investment.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    One would welcome independent verification of Meatman's phone call - he does seem to hear a lot from unnamed third parties and not all of what he hears turns out to be true ...
     
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  4. Michael B

    Michael B Member

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    If it is true that the Blackmoor Company will be owned by the L&BRT, is that because of the demand for financial guarantees (to the Bank maybe ?) or merely for control reasons (which could surely be achieved in other ways). I hope we shall find out in due course.
     
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  5. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Odd that - not quite my understanding of how Limited Companies [Plc] work. Unless some form of guarantee is required for the Bank Loan?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
  6. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    No doubt very much like yourself then Martin, unnamed parties! They are named to me
     
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  7. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    Of course, Andy, in your mind...
     
  8. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Ok, can we pack this sort of stuff in now, please? Or take it off-thread, because it's really unedifying.
    Thanks.
     
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  9. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Exactly - I think I can wait for an official announcement about this rather than further speculating.
     
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  10. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    Hi James I totally agree to that but, it is down to the Trust to come up with a working plan that people can read and engage with, if you like it is no different to going to the bank and asking for money to buy a House or a car you still have to fill out the forums and all the rest of the details they need, so on that basis alone putting out a fundraising package for people to sign up to shouldn't be a problem. But so many groups do have a problem with this.

    If you look at someone like the Great Orman Street Hospital which has one of the top fundraising teams about, they had similar problems when they started, but I think it was (at the last time I looked) up to £150millions later and they are still going, what is more we now have one of the best children's hospital in the UK.

    Fundraising is bloody hard work I know that, but trying to get a management team to engage so a fund raising team can just get on with it, can sometime be like watching bunny's staring into the headlights of an on coming car that is just about to splatter them across the road.

    I am still convinced that raising the money for any project is still one of the hardest things to do no matter what it is for either for a new company start up or a Charity like the L&BR it should be part of the long term planning strategy. Not just done as and when.
     
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  11. mgp

    mgp New Member

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    Colin
    I would remind you that the "ALL ABOARD" fundraising project has been running for a number of years. Members and non-members have regularly been invited to either set up a regular standing order or to make ad-hoc payments into the very type of 'fighting fund' which you are describing. I imagine that you, like me, would have received leaflets in with your L&B magazine from time to time.
    Mike
     
  12. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mike yes I do get them, but you also need to give feed back as to how and where the money is going. As it is, I can't find the line in the Trust accounts as to what it comes under, if it generate a significant amount of money then surely it should show up in the accounts?
     
  13. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Mike, hi

    The other thing is that which Tom has already helpfully pointed out: there needs to be a clear ask. Is 'All Aboard' for the extension? For the TWAO? For the rolling stock? About the only thing it objectively isn't for is the Old Station House Inn - s0 some clarity would be very helpful (as would news of when the TWAO application is going is, too.)

    Toby
     
  14. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    Now that the dust has settled somewhat, perhaps it is time to review where we are at with L&BR progress at Blackmoor.
    The OSHI at Blackmoor, namely the old Blackmoor railway station and environs, is reputedly for sale once more. L&BR needs the land package as part of its extension proposal.
    The land comes with a functioning pub that provides meals. L&BR Trust does not have the money to purchase the OSHI package outright.
    Therefore it must obtain a loan for the purchase. Obviously the OSHI will need to continue trading so as to help with mortgage loan repayments.
    Is any of this contentious? I think not.

    Nevertheless, there will be questions in the short term concerning the success or otherwise of the OSHI which will have to be managed.

    In the longer term, with a functioning railway from Wistlandpound/Blackmoor to Lynton, the OSHI Blackmoor should become a major attraction in its own right serving as the railhead for visits to Lynton/Lynmouth. However, we are in the present, and as with any venture there are risks and rewards. It would be nice if a well-heeled benefactor were to somehow magically appear but this is improbable. So, L&BR Trust has to move intelligently forward as best it can.
    This appears to mean gaining S73 approval for a return to Parracombe and working to enable the challenging further extension to Blackmoor...
     
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  15. Snail368

    Snail368 New Member

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    I suspect that a section of railway from OSHI to Wistlandpound will be opened fairly quickly, so that the USPs and attractability of the OSHI for visitors will increase - at least for weekends and the holiday period. Meal out, short trip on railway, walk around reservoir - not many places can offer that experience. Is it not the case that the original funding for railway was done by the LynBarn pleasure ride? I would see this as a diesel hauled ride (to minimise operating expenses). Probably a ticket on the OSHI part would enable the holders to get a discount at Woody Bay as well. I am optimistic in the medium to long term for this being a profitable part of the overall L&B group.
     
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  16. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    I think Snail 368 makes a good point that purchase of the OSHI opens up the possibility of a section of railway to Wistlandpound. The possibility of a second section of working L & B railway has been raised before and it has problems which others have discussed ie dilution of effort, difficulty of finding volunteers etc. However it would appear that having two or more railways in close proximity can work in all their favours...... as is the case in North Wales.
    So a way forward for the eventual rebuilding of virtually all of the L & B might well be as a "string of pearls" along the route gradually getting linked up.
     
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  17. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Maybe, but....without the Sec 73 approval there can be NO Depot at Blackmoor, as the land for the Depot is north of the road in the ENPA area. So how and where will the maintenance and operating facilities be located to support locomotives and rolling-stock on the BR - WD section with the NDC area?
     
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  18. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    Yes in theory, but you also need to think about the other things that need to be done first of all, such as where you are going to store your locos and rolling stock once you start operations? The planning at present precludes any buildings on the southern (station) side of the Blackmoor road junction site. The whole process is complicated I am not denning that, I also know it is not going to be easy to do, but part of the planning was also for the road junction work to be done before we can start to build the railway. This of course is going to cost us more money than the pub will bring in. Again where is the money coming for all this to be done? It sure is not going to happen on what profit we get from the Pub, as the shareholders and the bank of Blackmoor PLC are going to want there return first of all.

    Of course I know the railway needs this location and it is a big risk, nothing ventured nothing gained is the old saying. But with the current economic environment is this the best deal on the table? How is this all going to work just after Christmas with very little in the way of a tourist trade about? You can't just shut a pub for three months, you still need to keep the place clean, warm and dry and in the middle of no where for what? With only the locals coming in at lunchtimes and evenings it is going to be tough to keep going and running. It will be no different to running a railway and then trying to do the winter works programme without any money, it simply can't be done.

    If someone had come to me and said to get Blackmoor up and running with a railway is going to cost us XYZ. I know that myself and others would be a lot happier about it all, but trying to find out what estimates anyone has in mind is difficult. Running a Pub is not easy, not only do you have know what stock you have to order may be each week, but then you have the food orders/supplies to look after, the staff wages, insurance costs, energy costs which are going through the roof, local council taxes to pay and I am sure there are a load more things which I haven't mentioned.

    Of course if I had the money and I was satisfied with the answers I was given then yes I would continue to support the project, like I have done so for the last forty years. But it appears there is a growing concern with the direction of this project and lack of day to day information about the project itself, some of the information can't be put on line due to the public seeing it as well but the members need to be kept informed via the magazine.

    As things stand, a lot of people are wanting to ask questions about all of this, sadly Covid has got in the way of me going to the members meeting this weekend to ask them.

    As railwest has pointed out if the S73 fails then what do you do?
     
  19. Snail368

    Snail368 New Member

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    The winter months/out of season times are something which all parts of the hospitality industry have to get through. This is unlikely (I would agree) to be a profitable part of the season for the OSHI. However it does give time for necessary re-decoration/refurbishment and also staff training and recruitment. However I also think that the purchase is likely to be worthwhile long term. I understand re lack of news, but I understand that the sellers wish for the negotiations to remain confidential at this point - which is not uncommon in business! We'll have to look forward to the first AGM of the OHSI in due course and hopefully this will be at the premises over a decent pint.
     
  20. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    I do not claim to be 'knowledgeable' about all that is going on at the moment with regard to Phase 2A - like many others on here, I suffer from the lack of timely and detailed information being fed back to members - but I do feel that there are various well-meaning contributors who may not appreciate the full impact of their various suggestions about how to take the L&BR forward at the moment.

    The planning consent situation for Phase 2A is very complicated by virtue of the facts that (a) it is split between the NDC and the ENPA and (b) the latter is split into four different applications (a fifth was rejected, but has no bearing on the current situation). I'm not sure of the precise location, but in essence the boundary between the ENPA and NDC elements is roughly where the main road is. So for anything built under the NDC approval the new 'station' will consist purely of two new platforms and a passing-loop on a new alignment to the west of the OSHI. There is (currently) no room or approval for any loco/stock storage/maintenance facilities south of the road.

    IIRC - without trying to find all the relevant plans again to check - the approval from ENPA for the Depot is simply the area of the Depot and its associated sidings - it does not include the adjacent track-bed of the main running line. So even if the Trust gets Sec 73 approval to build the Depot early, the railway still has somehow to connect the Depot (north of the road) to the new station site (south of the road). That will involve a section of trackbed passing under new bridges under both the main road and the OSHI access road. Depending upon the precise ENPA/NDC boundary, at least part of that trackbed - albeit not very much - probably is part of the wider application for the whole of the KL-BR section, so as I see it the Trust would still have to secure that application even if it abandoned the idea of the PE extension sine die. Then there is the road+bridge works to do.

    In the short term I would regard the OSHI as a 'nice to have' rather than essential, in the sense that trains could still operate to/from the new 'station' to its west. The practical problems would come from how to manage all the passengers with virtually no facilities for booking office, waiting room etc, all of which probably would have to be built new on the new platforms. and then could become surplus if/when the OSHI is finally acquired for railway use.
     
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