If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

61306

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 61624, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,317
    Likes Received:
    16,393
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That’s why I’m surprised they can operate the Windsor trains
     
  2. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    5,679
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brampton, Cumbria
    Quiet baffling that it is being challenged Darlington and Doncaster green did not exist as colour titles. For modellers both Railmatch and Phoenix Precision sell both shades. From what I understand, a great deal of research went in particular to the Doncaster shade for Phoenix Precision. A guide, yes. Varied between batches mixed, yes. But the two are each very different shades of green.
     
    Johnb likes this.
  3. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,618
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired SPM
    Location:
    Close to Spike Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I can't get the right section of the Sectional Appendix to open on line, but class 442 units are (were?) permitted on the Windsor & Eton branch. There shouldn't be too much of a problem for mark 3 coaches as long as they have short swing link bogies. ( Long swing links could make contact with the 3rd rail.... )

    Cheers, Neil
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
    Johnb likes this.
  4. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,317
    Likes Received:
    16,393
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I was thinking of the logistics of fitting in the Windsor trains where the only set of coaches is based at Crewe and fairly intensively used
     
  5. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,032
    Likes Received:
    7,605
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Maintainer for GTR at Hornsey
    Location:
    Letchworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I believe it also says Eurostar sets are permitted on the Isle of Wight, so I'd take it with a pinch of salt!
     
    35B likes this.
  6. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,922
    Likes Received:
    3,827
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    They might be using the Mk3 Intercity set being used for the SD trip to Scotland rather than the mk1/2 Blood and Custard set, for some of the Windsors. Looking at the Saphos and Intercity websites one of these should always be available. I have not checked the dates for the other day trips. There is also the Statesman set in Pullman colours, although some of these coaches have been used with the Blood and Custards.
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    To the best of my knowledge, restrictions on Ventnor and Pan Lane tunnels haven't been lifted.
     
    gwalkeriow likes this.
  8. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,727
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Would they fit in the headshunt at Wootton?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  9. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,618
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired SPM
    Location:
    Close to Spike Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Forget the gauge clearance, it's the Conductor Rail Index. Notch 2 on a Eurostar should put St Johns and Rowborough sub stations into orbit.

    Cheers, Neil
     
    Sheff, CH 19, 30854 and 5 others like this.
  10. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,591
    Likes Received:
    9,325
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Asset Engineer (Signalling), MNLPS Treasurer
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Fact is, N.E.R. Green and G.N.R. greens are different. They were different railway companies. They were amalgamated alongside other companies into the L.N.E.R. which effectively created a single corporate entity for which the livery was a simplified version of the G.N.R. livery.

    Darlington Works, being the N.E.R. major works, kept certain accoutrements for their painting, including the cylinder covers and the shade of green for the N.E.R was retained, despite the livery specification changes as part of the grouping.

    This isn't new information, this has been known of since 1923 and is in several primary sources from the company itself.
     
  11. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Occupation:
    Safety, Technical and Offroad Driver Trainer
    Location:
    South Yorkshore
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Morayshire *I believe* was in Darlington Green last time she was overhauled- which certainly looks a different hue to the other LNER/BR Apple green locos.

    Chris
     
  12. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,591
    Likes Received:
    9,325
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Asset Engineer (Signalling), MNLPS Treasurer
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That's correct. Identifiable in a further way by the lined out and green cylinder covers.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. KHARDS

    KHARDS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    75
    Occupation:
    Train Planner
    Location:
    Errr......in front of a computer?
    Green coaches when they only have one Southern loco would be silly. A general BR colour scheme makes far more sense.
     
    Johnb and Chris86 like this.
  14. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,849
    Likes Received:
    2,362
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/writer and composer of classical music
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    These are perfectly valid points which I accept. Perhaps in my defence:-
    1) it would make a change from maroon
    2) Although LSL only has one operational southern loco, hopefully it won't be too long before works starts on one or both MN(s)
    3) Both Brits and black fives were to be seen at the head of green Mark 1s at times, likewise Gresley and 60532 when they worked to Weymouth and Exeter respectively on railtours
    4) I'm sure you'd prefer a rake of green mark 1s to inter city liveried mark 2s or mark 3s!
     
    Matt37401 and 26D_M like this.
  15. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    A personal choice perhaps but if IIRC the Southern green coaches were unlined hence presented after a short period a very drab image. Whilst anathema to some I find the style of blood-and-custard livery on LSL stock the most suitable for whatever locomotive is at the head of the rake. As presented it is both neat and presentable and a pleasure to see as the company seeks to present both an ethos and era of train travel being a valued part of the leisure industry.
     
  16. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,328
    Likes Received:
    11,666
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Tbf Maroon is predominately used by another operator though isn’t it?
    I’m wondering if we’ll see a rake of maroon stock operated by Saphos or could that present a legal problem?
     
  17. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What is maroon of course, BR, LMS? Which would you be trying to achieve. I doubt the colour has a trademark protection, did not Orange or easyJet try that an fail?
     
  18. jsm8b

    jsm8b Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    6,172
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Escapee from the corporate bear-pit
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    In 2016 sculptor Anish Kapoor purchased the artistic rights to Vantablack, a material described as the "the darkest man-made substance."

    Think back to the days when Riviera used to announce they had trains in maroon, carmine and cream and brown and cream.
    Inevitably due to availability and customer requirements they rarely seemed to put out complete sets in a single livery - Saphos trains earlier this year have run with a Mk2 brake from the Statesman set
    No matter what inconsistency that presents to the enthusiast I wonder what it says to the customers, as I understood it that was why west Coast chose maroon for the stock although the Pullmans now all appear to have reverted to Pullman livery.
     
  19. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    5,455
    Can’t see why it would be a problem from a legal point of view unless they put WCR logos on them.

    Maybe from a commercial view though Saphos may feel it doesn’t give them such a unique brand identity.
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'd imagine, while no individual colour or tone is copyrightable, add lining, perhaps a logo or trademark image and/or a prescribed font and you'll have something sufficiently unique to warrant trademark protection.

    Quite a few years ago, a certain purveyor of stale buns, mashed bovine and sliced gherkins attempted to drag a family restaurant on the Isle of Syke through the courts for daring to use their family name on their fourth generation business. Not long after opening statements were made, the (Scottish) judge peremptorily halted the case as groundless, indeed ridiculous, found for McDonalds and in no uncertain terms, told the multinational to get out of his court.
     
    35B likes this.

Share This Page