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Brighton Atlantic: 32424 Beachy Head

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Maunsell man, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The really significant job is to put the boiler on the frames - after which there are all the final fitting type tasks to do, but I don't think there is any significant component that still requires making. Debate has been flowing back and forth about how best to do that boiler lift: the options being a hired in yard crane, or putting the loco in the workshop and doing it with the overhead cranes there. I think that in a perfect world, the latter would be preferable since there is always the possibility that a boiler and loco that have never previously been together may not align perfectly first time. However, doing it in the workshop would then mean the loco spent several months in there afterwards being completed, and that eats into the capacity of the workshop to carry out overhauls on the core fleet which is desperately needed at the moment. So I'm not sure if an ultimate decision has been reached yet, but I think it is leaning towards doing it with a hired in crane in the yard and then pushing the loco back into Atlantic House for the final stages of assembly. I suspect that also goes some way to answering the question about what is constraining the rate of progress.

    The craning operation AIUI is quite complex. In Brighton days, when assembling the locos, the boiler would probably have been lifted on tho the frames, then the cladding added, then the whole assembly put on its wheels, and the running plates and splashers added. Beachy Head has been built essentially in reverse, with the loco wheeled, running plates and splashers on, and the cladding added. There is minuscule clearance between the splashers and cladding due to the large wheels (in fact the boiler cladding has a series of indents to clear the splashers, all of which have been somewhat intricately made: the cladding isn't a simple hoop of steel plate). That means the boiler has to be lifted in a way that doesn't put any pressure on the cladding, so you can't sling it in the normal way just in front of the firebox. Instead, if it is done with road cranes, the lifting points will be I believe at the safety valve fittings, and at the smokebox; and if done with a single crane, it will need a spreader bar to balance the load. The ashpan will also need fitting, so the whole procedure is to lift the boiler, fit the ashpan, then lift onto the frames, ensuring it is level and clears the splashers - quite a tricky operation.

    Tom
     
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  2. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Been reading @marshall5's recent posts re: boiler jiggling on the IMR locos? ;)
     
  3. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I understand that the NRM has indicated tht it has no objections in prinipal to the GNR Atlntics running again
     
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  4. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    Get em out and get em going again!
     
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  5. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    Shame the big 'un was re-assembled with a flat valve front end and no superheater header (so I'm led to believe, I may stand corrected).
    Certainly 990 would be nice to see in action again!

    Richard.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
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  6. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Bigger jobs have successfully been tackled.
     
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  7. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    True, but would the NRM be happy with someone rebuilding 251 to its superheated PV form, even if it did create an original-spec machine? I somewhat doubt it - It would mean destroying a priceless coat of paint for a start...

    Richard. ;)
     
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  8. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    While we're at it lets get 4003, that NER 4-4-0, the D class, the LYR tank and 46235 stripped down and ready to steam again!
     
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  9. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    And of course not forgetting the Compound!

    Richard.
     
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  10. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    And Hardwicke, Thundersley and the Dean Goods!

    Talking about the NER, that Fletcher 2-4-0, number 910, is at Stainmore. Wonder if it's on the radar for an overhaul?
     
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  11. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't be to difficult a job to restore 251 to running order. As she's fitted with a superheated boiler with the superheater header and elements removed, so a new header would be needed.

    Edit: Of course the other alternate solution to a new superheater header and elements would be a pair of new none superheater tube-plates front and back [Smoke box and firebox ends that is] of the boiler.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2022
  12. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    That's not my understanding! I remember there was some discussion of 251 steaming for its centenary back in 2002 but the museum ultimately decided against it.

    At any rate neither Atlantic was included in the NRM's recent operational rail vehicles strategy so neither of them will be considered for a return to steam in the forseen future.

    Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the number of locos released by the NRM for running will decrease from the current 'not many to practically none in the next few years.

    The vibe of the place is now completely different from years gone by. It's the domain of university educated interpreting civil servants creating interactive displays and not a toy box for private railways to lean on and borrow from. Coffee shops with stale scones and a gift shop is the direction of travel. Burning coal for the pleasure of single white middle aged men is not to be encouraged! Chances of a GN Atlantic coming out from there is zero. Chances of a display on how coal killed the planet I would hazard a guess is 99.9999% certain.

    FWIW We were there in December and Mrs MM was not impressed with the sconeage but did say the coffee wasn't too bad....
     
  14. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    If that's the way it's going, then moving the locos off to heritage lines would give more space to interactive displays and coffee shops would suit them!

    come on, do some more T3 type offloads, let's see steam in its real environment, on heritage lines, and working!
     
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  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Aren't both atlantics currently at Bressingham? so those who currently run the NRM Coffeeshop, might not even realise they are part of the national collection, so, apart from funding, whats stopping an appeal to put one back into steam, the only objection the NRM might have is we don't want to fund it, if its not part of the display at York, or Shilton, its not going to impact on any plans the NRM might have, as i can't see any of the loco's on loan to preserved railway centres ever being recalled, mostly because those in charge at York, and South Kensington, seem to place greater value on commercial activities .
     
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  16. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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  17. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    990 is at York I believe.

    I think there's a post on here somewhere that says what is needed to get 251 steaming again, and it's not a simple job. Better just paint the Bluebell's version in green and get 990 running instead ;)
     
  18. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Yes, 251 is at Doncaster, 990 will join her in due course. (4771 I understand was a temporary substitute to allow some additional conservation work on 990 before she goes there.) I don't know exactly how long the loans are for but my understanding is that both will be there for the forseeable future.

    Having spoken to people involved in the loan, I know that the museum team at Doncaster are really excited that, for the first time, they can finally put two of "The Plant's" finest on display in their town. The NRM have been really pleased to facilitate that. They have certainly not forgotten about these engines and they have done quite a bit of conservation work on both of them to ensure they will be fit for long-term display at Doncaster.

    I won't go into the whole "steam vs. convserve" debate, I have tried to explain conservation principles on this forum many times before, but clearly I am wasting my breath. What I will say, however, is: sometimes museums can offer something that heritage railways can't. A working steam railway in the centre of Doncaster is simply never going to happen. But having the two "Atlantics" on display in Doncaster will help to connect local residents to their railway heritage. The museum is in the town centre, free to enter, and is combined with the local library. It is going to draw in many people who might never make the effort to visit a heritage railway, or perhaps couldn't afford to even if they wanted to. It will probably be the first port of call for all the local mothers trying to keep their kids entertained at half-term. Who knows? Maybe some of those kids, looking up at these magnificent engines, will be inspired to become enthusiasts.

    But more than that: having these engines as the flagship exhibits in the local museum makes a big statement about how important railways were to the town's history. It will give people a sense that railways are an integral part of their local identity. And that means that those people are more likely to be sympathetic to railways and railway heritage in general. Next time the politicans come knocking at the door and ask, "how would you like us to spend your tax revenues after the election?", they'll be more likely to say "maybe we could have more funding for the NRM, please?", or "maybe you could tell Highways England to stop needlessly demolsihing old railway bridges, please?" As a movement, we need all the allies we can get. This museum, I reckon, is going to generate some new ones.

    And for those who want to see an Atlantic in steam: before too long, we'll all be able to enjoy No. 32424, which looks near enough identical to 251 anyway. So what's the problem?
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Martin, I think you are doing museum curators a disservice if you think they could somehow forget where 200 tons of their collection are. A bit less hyperbolae would not go amiss …

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    For some people it seems, yes. I for one always enjoy reading your posts.

    Tom
     
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