Locomotives that should have been preserved, but weren’t.

They may be separate things but are they inter-connected? If a boiler is found to be below par - no insurance cover one assumes.
If a boiler has passed an inspection but then explodes, one then expects the insurance company to question the veracity of any inspection. If the inspection was found to be satisfactory the insurers pay out. But if the inspection/or interval between inspections ( indicating possible negligence by operator), were in any way suspect, could the insurer withhold pay out?

 

There is no legal requirement for you to have boiler insurance, unlike Public & Employees liability. There is a legal requirement for you to have a written scheme which lays down the examination requirements. What do you think boiler insurance covers?

 

I’m with Simon on the ‘everyday’ approach to preservation. It would IMHO have told the story a little better.

Coming from the classic motorbike world as I do, the exotica and expensive is over represented, whereas the ordinary bikes are much less common.

So if I’m allowed a regional bias, it would have been the run of the mill Brighton tanks, E’s, and I suppose the I3 because of the superheater.

Some of the big SR and predecessor companies' big tanks would be on the list too.

I agree about 0-6-0 goods engines too.

As for a lemon? Well, Mr Drummond spoilt us for choice. It would be nice to find one of the Eastleigh horrors with similar dimensions to something decent of about the same age to be able to directly compare them. Come to think of it, if we're doing comparisons, a Brighton I1 would do just great next to an I3.

That would be interesting from a fitter’s point of view, which tends to get overlooked by enthusiasts.

Edit: Grammar and the bit about the I1.

 

Thanks. That makes sense.
Insurance cover would presume the cost of replacement, if that sort of cover is available? There used to be a company called National Vulcan that arranged cover but not sure they exist now or indeed what they covered?
One assumes Public and Employers liability covers injury or death!
Where does negligence come it this eg. If an owner extends the periods of inspection and these are later found wanting? Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

I think you are misinterpreting what subsiduary means in this context. Both the Welshpool and Llanfair and the Mawddwy railways were separate companies, but had arrangements with the Cambrian which ran their traffic for a % of gross receipts. Its in part I para 1 (2) of the act. Constituents were amalgamated, and subsidiaries were absorbed, although the GWR did some successful lobbying and managed to have things arranged that, unlike all the other companies, the pre grouping GWR was not wound up but continued largely as before, but with six extra directors in addition to the existing 19, one nominated by each of the six welsh constituents.

 

Isn't it the same in most areas of collecting to a certain extent. The choice pieces get saved because they were cherished or had value. The bog standard were turned into razors.
EG. There are more E Type jags preserved than Morris Marinas. No sniggering at the back!
4565 Jags compared to circa 500 marinas.

https://www.autosspeed.com/ten-critically-endangered-british-cars-that-used-to-be-commonplace/

 

The owner can only extend the period of examination with the written agreement of the boiler inspector(Competent person) but you're into the world of negligence, liabilities and litigation, which is way above my pay grade, I'm afraid.

 

Thanks.
Litigation is one area an owner would not want to get into, one thinks

 

Yes, of course. It's just that classic bikes are my area of knowledge.
Not everything is a 'classic'. If you want to waste an evening look for that topic on classic vehicle forums. Sometimes an old bike is just an old bike. I have a very manky 250 Superdream. Swap 'bike' for collectable of your choice.
The big difference though is that steam locos of any kind are uncommon. I hesitate to use the term rare. I would interested to know what percentage of existing engines are unique examples of their class.

 

I don't think it has to be either or. If you said you have ten locos to preserve I'd preserve 9 ordinary, every day average locos, trying to get a range of under represented regions and designers in (as I said in my OP), but I also think you need to have space for the dead-end because that is just as much part of the story as a whole.

So taking the Gresley example, a W1 represents Gresley the experimenter which is as much part of his story as the A4 or the K3, and it shows that he had to have failures in there to get to the successes. As it is the P2 is probably fulfilling that function already.

Here's the thing - it doesn't have equal weight. In the story of loco development its one part of the story - and the story of failure should be told alongside the story of transformation and change. I advocated a range of other types to fill gaps and my final pick was for a failed experiment - just the one, Not, give me every failed experiment ever for my freak show.

The Southcotts tell you more about the world than you think and that was Thompson's point. They add the colour, the nuance and the variation in stark contrast to the banal black and white unilinear narratives. They are the richness in the tapestry.

I'll always rock up for Pierrot Lunaire.

 

Er! Wot!
Speak English man!

 

Thank you for making that clear. I think the gist of my post still stands (apart, perhaps, from the bit that says "though it doesn’t say which one "). The Act sets out the mechanisms for absorption of the subsidiary companies (either by agreement, or under terms set by a tribunal if agreement in accordance with the Act was not reached) but @30854 said "a special legislative instrument was required to permit the GW to absorb the W&L" which implies something not covered under the Act.

 

I was using "Classic" in the modern idiom, ie. anything old, particularly vehicles, which are seen as collectable or desirable. But you are right, some things are just old! And, one person's treasure is another person's old dog. Cannot see the interest in Moggie Minors or Beetles, but each to their own.
I have a 2005 Mustang and a 1980 Apple Jack Green Morris Marina. Guess which turns more heads?
Expressions such as "I had one of those as my first car", or "my dad had one of those" - will give you an idea

Have owned a Triumph Stag and a Mark 3 Spitfire in the past. Today would rather have the Spitfire - much more fun

 

Joanna Southcott - a person from Honiton who had some strange ideas. Some might say that not much has changed. She is referenced in E.P.Thompson's 'The making of the English Working Class' when he says 'I am seeking to rescue the poor stockinger, the Luddite cropper, the 'obsolete' hand-loom weaver, the 'utopian' artisan, and even the deluded follower of Joanna Southcott, from the enormous condescension of posterity.'

Her story, like that of the railway dead ends, doesn't go anywhere, but she is someone who at her peak had 100,000 or so followers and her cult lasted for over 100 years. Thompson's quest is to ask why would someone choose to follow Southcott in the C19, what were their motives and rationales behind those decisions, to try to understand them. The same we can ask about Kitson-Still, Paget, Leader or Webb compound or a Drummond experiment - what are they trying to do and why didn't it work. Apocalyptic preachers are a feature of C18-19 society as much the industrial revolution, empire and new technology and so if you are telling the story of the English Working class then she has to be in there alongside the usual stuff of mills, urchins in chimneys, Empire etc etc. Failed experiments with new technology is part of story of railway history as much as the successful stuff and need to be in the story.

Pierrot Lunaire is a piece of atonal music by Arnold Schoenberg. My point here is that if you said to me 'pick ten representative pieces of music from the Habsburg Monarchy' you can easily pick the well known, popular classics, but I would also in the name of representativeness include something that was experimental because that was part of Habsburg musical culture.

 

Oh! Everyday is a schoolday!

Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk

 

Thank you for the clarification. Seeing that perspective, however, reinforces my view that the experiments you advocate for are in a different class.

Thompson (how could I have have forgotten him from my undergraduate days!) was part of a process of rediscovering a different layer of history, and broadening our understanding of society as a whole. That makes her and her followers not a dead end, but part of an overall portrayal of beliefs and cultures in her era. Pierrot Lunaire was a high profile work by a high profile composer, at a time of feverish cultural development and experimentation, a phenomenon that if anything defined Viennese musical culture at the tail end of the Habsburg empire.

I stand by my view that the experiments of Paget, Fell, Bulleid etc. are in a different category; neither part of the mainstream development of locomotive design nor helping understand what was going on more generally in that world. Rather, they form part of a railway engineering freak show, bearing comparison with such as the Bennie Railplane.

 

I'm not sufficiently up in the classic vehicle scene to know, but it seems to me most enthusiasm is reserved for vehicles that were exceptional or popular. I suppose some real turkeys are preserved, but perhaps more statically in museums than active. I know that new builds happen, sometimes with original parts as supposed rebuilds, but I haven't heard of people wanting to put all the time and money in to end up running something that was quite hopeless even when new. But I'm happy to be corrected.
I suppose there must be examples of mediocre road vehicles revived, and I should also note that it's all talk so far when considering recreating the real railway crocks, although there are a number of rail projects that could be characterised as recreating\restoring something that was well short of ideal.

 

The classic motorcycle scene has more tribes than one might imagine. I suspect the same is true of cars, lorries, buses etc.

 

A B16/1 ,A b16/2 and a B16/3 and then an unrebuilt WC plus a rebuilt BB and a Bill Bailey.
As benchmark and reliable transport of test wagons a Bavarian P3/5 H.
The all important question of What is good steam locomotive engineering? could then be discussed forever.