Locomotives that should have been preserved, but weren’t.

Good point on 19th century stuff. There are a handful from the very early period, like Lion, for example, and a few from the 1880s onwards, as some lasted long enough to reach the preservation era.

The poorly represented period is approx 1850 to 1870, as most of this age group disappeared before the grouping. On the GWR, the 20th century locos are massively well represented but there's pretty much nothing from the 19th, apart from the Dean Goods, which hasn't run in preservation.

 

The thread is about locomotives. I think it goes without saying that a much wider range of pre nationalisation rolling stock would be very desirable, to show what the railways were like before the Mk1 - and how older wasn’t always better (give me an Mk1 over a GW auto trailer, for example).


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The surviving Ventnor Wed push pull set has interiors which would shame either of the vehicles you mentioned. With four wheeled underframes the ride is a bit bumpy though.

 

Fowler 2300 tank, Stanier 2-6-4 tank, MR 2p, 46256/57. Maunsell W tank. LBSCR K mogul. LNER K3. Salmon trout. As a sign of progress and then historical pieces. All of the prototype diesel/ electric locos. 10000/10001, 10201. Kestrel, Falcon.

 

The premise of the thread was "Which locomotives do you all feel should have been preserved?"

So there has to be some rationale for the choice. By inference, to qualify the choices must be significant locomotives or types, but not already preserved. So however much you like Stanier pacifics, just saying "another one please" doesn't cut it.

On a different thread, I gave my personal choice of the ten most significant locos or types, significance being:

- To have been the first example to demonstrate some feature or capability that went on to become widespread
- To have made a significant transformative impact for the company for whom it was designed
- To have been associated with a person or event of significant importance.

The list was:

- "Salamanca": I've hummed and haa'd over a significantly early locomotive, but in the end chosen this (rather than a Trevethick loco) because it demonstrated the commercial success of the steam locomotive.

- "Rocket", for the reasons elaborated on by others: the whole history of railways may have been different had Rocket not been successful

- "Planet", for being the first loco to bring together all the features that ended up typifying British practice: plate frames, braced at the front by inside cylinders; integrated firebox / boiler barrel / smokebox; multi-tubular boiler etc.

- E.B. Wilson "Jenny Lind" type, for being the first standard locomotive used in large numbers on a single railway.

- A Kirtley Midland locomotive, for the final development of a practical form of coal burning firebox. I went to the original paper by Charles Markham, and the specific type illustrated is a 2-2-2 passenger engine, so I'll go with one of them, though the specific significance is the firebox, not the rest of the loco.

- The LNWR DX goods, for being the standard loco beyond compare in an era of bespoke designs. In proportion to the total loco fleet of the LNWR, it makes even a Black 5 look like a niche design. The construction of locos for the L&YR also had a long-lasting impact on UK loco history by leading to an injunction that prevented one railway company building locos for a rival.

- The GNR large boiler Atlantic, for becoming effectively the prototype "large engine" that became widespread across the country for frontline express passenger use.

- The Churchward standard designs. A bit of a cop-out possibly to lump them together, but at least part of their significance was to put together a coherent group of locos all incorporating the same modern philosophy.

- The Maunsell N class - the first loco to combine the Churchward modernisms with the general principles of easy access to the working parts. It was designed in 1914, and the final UK locos - the BR Standards - were scarcely any different in concept 40 years later.

- Fletcher Jennings "Dolgoch", because it ran the first season on the Tal-y-llyn in the preservation era and thus was the beginnings of a modern leisure industry.

Some of those were, fortunately, preserved, but some weren't;t.

So, my answer to the question "Which locomotives do you all feel should have been preserved?" are Salamanca, Planet, Jenny Lind, a Midland 2-2-2 with coal-burning firebox, and a LNWR DX Goods.

Tom

 

You can see one of these, albeit in France.
https://www.martynbane.co.uk/2003Trips/AlsaceLorraine/museum2.htm

 

I think this was in England for a few years

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To brighten up your festive season here is a Jenny Lind. It is fun to drive an brings a smile to many faces

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From Tom's list, the Jenny Lind stands out as an important missing link. The LNW DX would be nice, but there are two surviving examples of the closely related GS&W 0-6-0, although only the superheated, Belpaire fitted one looks likely ever to steam again .

 

I like the DX and also a Midland Kirtley 0-6-0, one lasted to 1951

 

If we want to talk about underrepresented preservation, try looking at Ocean Liners by comparison. Those not on the bottom of the sea are tiny in number. So few have survived from the 19th and 20th century globally. The fact we have both Titanic and Britannic still in existence (just, by virtue of iceberg and torpedo) is something remarkable (and obviously very sad).

But the closest you can get to truly experiencing their size and luxury is the Queen Mary I believe (and she was built 20 years later).

 

I approve of your choices because of the logical reasons you outline but personal nostalgia and not logic prompts me to add a Gresley J50 which were ubiquitous around Hornsey during my childhood.

 

Ship preservation, in particular large operational ships is a fascinating and expensive story

 

Yes! Not a liner but PS Waverley was built for the LNER and is representative of a type of ship once commonplace all around the UK. She is definitely worth supporting.
https://waverleyexcursions.co.uk

 

Rather unusually for the LNER its a 3 cyl machine without congugated valve gear

Funnily enough two other LNER paddle steamers are preserved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Wingfield_Castle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Tattershall_Castle

And one ex British Rail one

https://www.maidoftheloch.org/

While I hope Kingswear Castle on the Dart needs no introduction

 

What a gorgeous ship!

 

Can I second Cartman's choice of a Midland Kirtley 0-6-0 and in particular the amazing survivor he referred to ; BR 58110, LMS 22630. MR 778. Built in 1870 so scrapped December 1951 in its 82nd year. Something about this double frame loco with its round topped firebox and ' curly ' frames just looks so antiquated but so right. One of the class was leant to the ROD during the first world war and was captured and used by the Germans before being repatriated. I would love to post a photo which would surely garner a few more votes but I am not sure of the copyright position.

 

How about a T2 Oil Tanker? Very pretty as ships go.

To add to the list it is a shame one of the EE bogie electrics from the Harton Colliery Railway didn't survive. (But of course don't qualify as they were not steam)

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How about a L&Y Dreadnought or a HR River class? Sweet!
A L&Y Baltic would be quite a beast to behold.
A LNWR flat iron anyone?

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Sorry. Meant MR flatiron. Ooops

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