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Titanic Carriages

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by Alan Kebby, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    The link to the Titanic may not be 100% proven, but it got the TV coverage, enquiries about the carriages and perhaps their eventual restoration/use.

    Without the link, they would continue to rot despite the owners apparent attempts to sell them.
     
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  2. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I hope that while it may never be possible to prove that the coaches were used on the specials run for Titanic Passengers given that they are rare survivors of the sort of vehicles that might have been in the boat trains the BTS might step in and help save them.

    Plugging a local business, I hope Cranmore Traincare might be in the running for the job?
     
  3. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I wonder if the rebuilding could not be used as part of a funding proposal. Here thinking about the Weald and Downland example of displaying buildings as they changed through the ages. You could restore the coaches to tell a story about the different forms/usages they took. I think it was mentioned that the third is at the NRM in its Ambulance car form.

    These are just random thoughts. That is to say you restore one in its original form and one in its 1930s form. Thus we are telling a compelling story about design, usage changes, the culture of reusing things (ie ticks an environmental box). There is the Titantic angle which maybe tenuous but if it brings eyeballs and funding who is to question the story too much. (Depending on the atmosphere you may want to big up the connection with empire via the ports).
     
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  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    If the Titanic link helps to raise interest in these coaches i'm all for it, there are not that many LSWR coaches of that era left, And if it helps to get funding that will see these coaches restored i'm all for it, of course, what an opportunity too if it enables a rake of LSWR coaches to be assembled with say a suitable engine, ( 563/499) at Southampton docks ocean terminal then transfer to Swanage, and Alresford for further charter and press runs,
     
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  5. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    Update from the British Titanic society. Great news:

    LSWR Composite Dining Saloons
    Following the television broadcast relating to the two London & South Western Dining Saloons currently under threat of being destroyed, we are pleased to announce that negotiations between the Society, and interested parties, to move the carriages from South Wales to a safe place, and for their planned restoration, are near to reaching a successful outcome.

    The carriages, LSWR nos. 70 and 76 were built at Eastleigh in 1907 and 1908 respectively and are of a “composite” type; i.e. designed to enable multi-class accommodation in a single coach and therefore reduce costs. They were designed by the renowned Scottish locomotive designer Dugald Drummond, and between 1907 and 1912, twenty-three of this type of dining saloon were built, with just eleven built in the configuration of these two particular carriages (Drawing 1601). Only Cars 70 and 76 survive.
    Although quite possibly, it cannot at present be definitely verified whether the cars actually formed part of the two boat trains that travelled from Waterloo to Southampton on the morning of the 10th of April, with passengers that were boarding Titanic. However, once fully restored, they will be an exact representation of the type that did.

    Over the coming months, and years, we will track progress of the huge project here on this page, on our website, and for members of the Society, in our Journal, Atlantic Daily Bulletin.

    If you would like further details about the carriages, their history, our plans for their future, or how you can support this exciting undertaking, please do hesitate to send us an email.

    Attached image shows what we hope carriage No.76 will look like once fully restored.
     
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  6. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    there is an Ironclad brake as well as part of the three at Blaenavon . As a variety of coach yet to return to operational use in preservation I hope this may also have a future
     
  7. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    I believe that was originally bought by the owner of the dining coaches, so there was a brake coach available to run with 70 and 76. Hopefully it might still feature in these new plans.
     
  8. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Add the LSWR royal saloon , thats 4 coaches, are there any other iron clads under restoration, At a pinch you could include the bluebell's coach, even though i doubt that an non corridoor coach would have been part of any ocean liner express, Or would it, if you had a party travelling who for what ever reason needed to be kept separate from the rest of the travellers, would there have been 3rd class, on these trains?
     
  9. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    Swanage has an Ironclad (in need of restoration), and has hinted it might like to acquire more. Nathan Au of the Swanage Railway has also posted his support of the BTS project on their Facebook page, and stated that they would like to see 70 and 76 restored and used with 563.

    Doesn’t mean they are going to Swanage, but I’d certainly be pleased if they did!
     
  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I make no secret what i would love to see done, possibly using sponsorship , and that is to gather a collection of LSWR coaches down at the Ocean Liner Terminus at Southampton in a photo opportunity for press tv etc, with either of 499 or 563, in LSWR livery
    Then have a photo charter using 499, and 563 at both Swanage , and MHR, with costs of transport being split between the two lines, so both can hold special events to mark the completion of such an project, There was an Iron clan at Alton, but it possibly may be beyond restoration as the body has collapsed, and as it was owned by the late Barry Eden, there might be issues if the MHR were to approach the executors of his estate to offer to buy it.
     
  11. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    There is a 3 page article on these coaches in the latest ‘Rail’ magazine. It indicates talks are taking place with the MHR with a view to moving them there and restoring them at Ropley.

    It would be interesting if they do return to the railway that decided it didn’t want them in 1993.
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Back then, even the Bulleid brake, only got restored because it was down to the owners and like minded people who took a stand, there was a lot of decisions made back then, that today, clearly would be seen as being mistakes, whats happening about the late Barry Eden's coach? is the railway, in discussion with the next of kin, or his estate, the body may be beyond saving, but the underframe , bogies etc, might be of use if another body needed an underframe.
     
  13. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    Indeed and if one of those wrongs can be righted, and 70 and 76 return to the Mid Hants then that has to be a good thing.

    At least they have been owned by a sympathetic owner who has done his best to look after them at Blaenavon, and keep the Welsh weather out. They might be beyond saving otherwise.

    The article mentions running them as a ‘Boat Train Experience’ at the MHR. Presumably a brake coach would be needed, so hopefully either the Ironclad on the MHR or the one at Blaenavon might be used for that purpose.
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Theres also the royal saloon that was part of the tv programme don't forget, if the owner of that would be interested in being part of such a scheme should it come to fruition, even if its just for a photo opportunity at a launch ceremony .
     
  15. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    Apparently they are now being prepared for transportation away from Blaenavon. Hopefully not long until the destination and restoration plan is announced.
     
  16. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    That is eighteen years ago.
    Heritage/tourist railways, for the most part, have changed a lot since than, Apart from the WSR :( ideas and hatchets buried have changed.
     
  17. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    18? More like 28. But yes the management at the Mid Hants are thankfully now much more enlightened. We’ll have to wait a little longer to hear if that is indeed where these coaches are headed, but good to hear they are definitely leaving Blaenavon imminently.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  18. Sparki

    Sparki New Member

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  19. StuTom

    StuTom New Member

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    hello all, I’m a newby hear from the Gwendraeth Railway Society and have been following this thread with interest.

    our group has been following the story of these vehicles for some time and had previously offered the owner of the restaurant cars secure storage should it be needed as a last resort, but we are delighted that this was not required and that that their fate is now assured. On the issue of the Ironclad Brake Third which formed part of the LSWR trio at Blaenavon, and which is now separately owned and is similarly in need for a new home, we are pleased to announce this vehicle will soon be moved to west Wales for use as a static support vehicle as part of the Gwendraeth Valley restoration project which is developing a pace together with the remains of GWR Family Saloon No 231, latterly the Newport Division Engineers Saloon which is in a very sorry state. The Ironclad is in good structural condition and has been well looked after by its current owner who is engaged in its long term restoration eventually to running order. Although out of gauge for our railway it would be wonderful to see the three fully restored and operational again one day.
     
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  20. Sparki

    Sparki New Member

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    I am the current owner of lswr1357 ironclad third brake corridor, built in 1923 at Eastleigh which currently resides at Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway.
    A new home has now been found with the Gwendraeth Railway in Kidwelly.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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