P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

They need electric power for quite a lot of electronic gubbins required for main line operation as well as the obvious stuff like lighting. They certainly need some redundancy, so that failure of one generator while out on the road would not be a disaster. I'm unsure why they want one generator driven by the wheels as well as two driven by steam turbines. One might expect the turbines to be more efficient than effectively robbing a small amount of traction power. Maybe someone else here knows?

 

Because a turbo generator has the advantage or running while stationary, which a wheel driven one wouldn't be? (So the turbo generator can provide power during preparation while stationary).

Tom

 

As far as I'm aware, the plan is to fit a high-output 24V commercial vehicle-type alternator, in a bespoke casing, to aid the charging process.
Watch for news of the electric motor under the cladding in the April issue...

Richard.

 

Think its more about security of supply rather than vast amounts. An alternator is fairly reliable but requires movement the Turbo less so ( hence 2) and requires steam...

 

This might be a touch premature to ask and discuss here, but seeing as we talk about liveries for locomotives that haven't even been completed yet, I figure why not!

My question is when the P2 is complete, would it be fair to assume it'll be painted in that same grey as Tornado was? Or perhaps they could maybe go for something a little more interesting but still practical enough, the LNER's wartime black? Seeing as the orginal locomotives did run during the war, however brief, surely one of them must have carried wartime black didn't they? Give us something a little different and rarely seen before being painted into the more well known yet of course much loved LNER apple green.

And another question while on the subject, is there any clue as to where they might take it to be tested and run in proper? I'm sure I heard they had made an agreement with one heritage railway out there to take the P2 out on for testing once complete, and it isn't the GCR as far as I know, though would be a nice history repeats itself situation if it did.

 

Well if it's not the GCR the SVR would be the other obvious candidate, both have special dispensation to run test trains at higher speeds. I can't think of anywhere else offhand.

 

Wensleydale? Think in terms of management connections, also closer to base if there are any problems.

 

You know that rings a bell, so I reckon your right about Wensleydale, makes sense.

From what I understand as it's been a LONG time since a P2 has been seen in action, as well as all the modifications they've made to the original design, I believe the trust envisions for the testing process to be rather a longer and protracted one then it was with the A1.

 

Interesting! I was going to suggest the NYMR, for its steep gradients and tortuous curves. An ideal testing ground for the new front pony truck design! The curves may be a bit too tight though for the coupled wheelbase with 6'2" drivers...

Richard.

 

I'd be surprised if there's a smoke lifting problem, particularly with a poppet valve engine.... I'd think that, as long as the exhaust temperature could be cooled sufficiently, the new design should perform well... 2001 was reputed to have a very sharp blast, but the exhaust temperature was very high... Separating the admission and exhaust steam passages should hopefully go a long way to sorting this.
Didn't the LNER fit aerodynamic fences or strakes to 2002 to aid smoke lifting? Unfortunately, they were somewhat less than unobtrusive!

Richard.

 

That's a good point there actually, though I know they've probably modified the design to allow some additional flexibility for the P2 to negotiate tighter curves, could there be heritage railways that it simpler just can't go to because of it's long wheelbase or indeed it's sheer size?

I'm inclined to think not many though, as I recall them stating confidently that the P2 would be able to go anywhere the A1 could no problem.

Also has me thinking, in terms of overall size with it's length and such, would the P2 be the largest steam engine in the UK? Or would there still be locomotives that are bigger, like the 9Fs perhaps? Perhaps it wouldn't but can't deny those big 4 sets of driving wheels so make it look like a mammoth compared to others...

Just trying to visualize in my head how it would look when put side by side with the other biggest locomotives we got, like a Merchant Navy or Princess Coronation for instance.

 

I'd be surprised if it could handle the curve out of platform 4 at Keighley... And I also think it would have difficulty in running round at Oxenhope... It's not a long headshunt!

Richard.

 

Oh yes the KWVR... I'd add them to the list of NOs!

I mean considering they could barely handle Light Bulleid City of Wells, stating it was a tad too big for their use, if the P2 came along the Permanent Way staff could have a heart attack!

 

I had a chat with David Elliot about this issue when Tornado visited the NYMR for a gala and he was pretty sure that the P2 would be able to run anywhere that the A1 could, but I'm not sure that the NYMR presents an ideal testing ground as there's nowhere on the line where it could reach high, sustained speed.

 

With at least six (and possibly more) grooves for 'Vee'-belts I would expect a much larger alternator than a commercial vehicle one.

 

Define biggest ... Wiki (other sources are available ...) suggests a loco broadly comparable, give or take a ton or two and a foot or two, with a Duchess or A4 - all three seem to be about of the order 62 - 64 ft total wheelbase; about 102 - 107 tons loco weight; a bit over 70 feet long total. There are fundamental constraints of how big you can get - not least available turntables - and all three are probably more or less at the upper end of the physical bulk a conventional loco could assume in the UK.

Tom

 

Mind you, in its first stint of running, I did see 34092 in action a good number of times... And if handled well, it could handle the curving 1:56 out of Keighley too! I remember 4472 visited in the '80s for a filming job, but it couldn't be used in service due to its axle weight... I'm pretty sure that issue will have been sorted now, as there have been a good few bridge replacements over the last 40 years... I'm trying to find the overall length of the P2 as compared with Evening Star, which I believe will be the longest engine to have visited the line... I stand to be corrected on that one!

Richard.

 

I do understand the need for the turbogenerators. What I didn't understand is what advantage the wheel driven one has over another turbo one.

That is making sense, thank you.

 

The "Elephant Ears".

 

Well, I've just pre-ordered my Hornby P2s - Earl Marischal and Prince of Wales - And also saw 60163 Tornado and A2/3 Sun Castle, so I ordered those as well. That's my wallet in need of water-cooling. Thankfully not all of these are due in stock at the same time!

Richard.