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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Will the buses pass any petrol stations en route?
     
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  2. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    My impression was that BL - WN as OES was not so much an ORR limitation, but simply an agreement to all that the Plc proposed initially - presumably considered by them as being (a) adequate for Christmas period etc and (b) minimising the amount of training and maintenance work necessary to get an operational
    state.
     
  3. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Again, I don't understand why the simple "we have a plan to deliver this by xxxx" isn't possible. But then, again, that begs questions about how this project was well enough scoped to support an £850k budget allocation over 2 years ago, yet is still not installed and is at a stage where ORR still require justification for the proposed configuration before going into consultation on the level crossing order. And that in turn leads to the question, again, of whether the WSR could have operated to Minehead in 2020.

    So much obscured, so much not shared except in a way that invites distrust.
     
  5. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Wool level crossing is truly a pain. It is when the barriers drop for a down train which slowly approaches, then stops at Wool station. All the while the motorists wait. My father in law lives at Winfrith, and it is a bit of an obsession for him too.
    In 25 years of visiting Minehead for business, health and leisure reasons, I have only once, ever, been held at the Seaward level crossing, which frankly I have always found disappointing. Personally I support the choice for semaphore signals, and would contribute to the additional costs. Not in favour of the additional delay though.
     
  6. Strail

    Strail New Member

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    No different to any MCB crossing located next to a station.
     
  7. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I can't see how it's even remotely close to possible to in only 4 months:
    • Get the design done
    • Get ORR to sign off on it
    • Get SCC to get going on making it happen (e.g. any needed votes)
    • Put it out to tender
    • Select a contractor
    • Order components
    • Get them fabricated and delivered
    • Get everything installed
    And I'm sure there are steps I've left out.

    Yes, if it was all in-house, it could go pretty quickly, but it's not; and the fact that several different government bodies (especially including the one that's paying for it) are involved pretty much guarantees that it will go slowly.

    My guess is a good part of a year, or so, for all of them to happen. (Some can be done in parallel, but most look inherently sequential.)

    Noel
     
  8. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    One of the problems in the past no doubt was the desire/need to schedule the work for the railway's winter shutdown period. Given that the MD-DR section is effectively shut-down anyway until the crossing is fixed, perhaps less of a problem and more of a sense of urgency now instead. Depends also upon to what extent the work might interfere with road traffic, so SCC might not want it in peak summer season anyway.
     
  9. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Commissioning by an authorised engineer.
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    ORR no longer sign anything off.
     
  11. 34015

    34015 New Member

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    The ORR still approve Level Crossing Orders on behalf of the Secretary of State For Transport. Without an LX Order you cannot bring the crossing in to use.
     
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  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Is that just the order or do they inspect the installation as well?
     
  13. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps may be, but...

    Come on Steve, we are not daft on here.

    I've got a copy of the ORR letter. It is widely circulated, so Frank Courtney's pretence that it should remain sort of private is nonsense.

    We know what it states.

    The gloss or spin Frank has singularly been unable successfully to put on it the last few days speaks for itself as a tawdry explanation that insults the intelligence of forum members on here following all this nonsense over Seaward Way crossing from the WSR plc board the last 2 years since JJP became Chairman of the WSR plc board.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
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  14. 34015

    34015 New Member

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    They sign the order and in my experience they normally inspect the installation after it has been brought in to use. It is also extremely prudent to have discussions with the ORR prior to drafting and submitting the LX order as you can sometimes come unstuck as Network Rail have found.
     
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  15. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    It's normal (if not obligatory) to close a level crossing in advance of a station, even if the train is supposed to stop. The reason is blindingly obvious.
    However, imagine the frustration at, for instance, Stockbridge Road L/C in Chichester when the stone train sets back from the yard to start it's run back to the quarry - not even a train crossing for motorists to curse before the barriers lift. :Morewaitingisrequired:
    Pat
     
  16. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    This is beginning to appear like a cut 'n paste response to most questions in this discussion.

    The response is always the same - we're doing things, everything is fine. We won't explain anything (delays, timescales) or respond to specific concern, but we will consider personal messages.

    If this was the local model railway society, I this approach might be a bit awkward but people would carry on running their OO gauge on club nights. But as far as I know, the WSR has a somewhat bigger train set than that.
     
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  17. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

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    Your timescale certainly sounds more plausible than the 4 months remaining until March 2021.

    If the WSR is unable to operate through to Minehead for a lengthy period, particularly if the peak summer period is involved, I wonder what the impact will be on passenger numbers and revenue - on top of any impact from continuing Covid-19 restrictions. The railway will still be able to attract those who simply want a train ride, but not all of those who wanted to go to the seaside.
     
  18. Woof Mk2

    Woof Mk2 Member

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    Whilst the below states Network Rail it gives an insight to the process for LC Orders.....


    Level Crossing Orders

    This LX Sharing bulletin is to provide awareness of Level Crossing Orders, including the process for requesting new Orders.

    There is a legal requirement for a new or amended Level Crossing Order to be signed off and extant prior to the commissioning of any new level crossing works that would otherwise affect the content of the preceding Order.
    Background
    When the construction of the railways was authorised, the individual enabling Act of Parliament specified how the railway was to cross roads and footpaths, either by bridge or on the level. Where the crossing was on the level, the arrangements to be implemented for protecting the users, both railway and highway, were specified.
    In order to permit the railway operator (Network Rail) to change the protective arrangements specified in the original Act for crossings accessed by the public with vehicles, a legal process was introduced which empowered the Secretary of State for Transport to make statutory Orders specifying the new or updated arrangements at individual crossings to which the public has access. This process is currently authorised through provisions in the Level Crossings Act 1983 (as amended).

    [​IMG]


    This Order making process is managed by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) on behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport.

    The process is normally initiated by Network Rail.

    .
    Order Content


    A Level Crossing Order details the protective-remove arrangements at a level crossing. A new or amended Order may bring about changes to those protective-remove arrangements.
    Orders can revoke earlier Orders, disapply requirements under legislation (e.g. Transport and Works Act 1992) and enable road traffic signs and road markings to be placed, and which may have legal effect, upon a highway or other road to which the public has access.

    The Level Crossing Order specifies how the crossing shall be operated and the protective equipment (which includes barriers, traffic signs, signals and road markings) to be provided at the crossing by both the operator, the infrastructure manager and the local traffic authority.


    [​IMG]

    Orders place duties on both Network Rail and the local traffic authority, in relation to the provision and ongoing maintenance of certain aspects for the safety or convenience of users of the crossing.
    Orders normally contain several parts. The Order itself contains the citation, principal duties, revocation of earlier Orders and other details. In addition, there are three supporting schedules which contain details of;
    • Schedule 1 – the crossing location, record of the local traffic authority and the status of the crossing.
    • Schedule 2 – what equipment the operator must provide and how they must operate the crossing.
    • Schedule 3 – what the local traffic authority must provide and how it shall conduct its undertaking in relation to the level crossing.
    Amendment or Variation Orders
    Amendment or Variation Orders can be used to amend or vary individual words or paragraphs however a new Order will be required where there are significant changes to the existing Order, or where a change of level crossing type is proposed, or where there are already three or more existing amendments or variations to an original Order. These Orders would also have to adhere to the statutory consultation process.
    Process for Project Teams Requesting a New Order

    Prior to commencing the Order Process, project teams should first consult with the Level Crossing Manager (LCM) and make the ORR aware of the initial proposals at the earliest possible stage, ideally 12-24 months before commissioning.

    A draft Level Crossing Order will be produced by the project team with support from the LCM. Templates for each crossing type can be obtained from the ORR HERE.

    The draft Order should be consulted with the ORR and the local traffic authority as a minimum requirement. Other stakeholders should be consulted where necessary e.g. parish council, lineside neighbours, planning authority etc.

    This should be a formal, written consultation, and which should include supporting documentation, such as a written summary of the proposals and an outline layout of the design. As a bare minimum, the initial consultation period should be for a duration of at least two months; however project teams should aim to complete this as early as possible. Failure to allow enough time could result in a delay to the commissioning.
    A record should be kept of all issues raised during this consultation period and the considerations and actions arising from them as this will be required for the formal Order application.

    Additional time may have to be factored into this consultation period if a public consultation meeting is required.

    Following this consultation period, amendments may have to be made to both the draft Order and the design, depending on what feedback has been received from stakeholders.

    Once the design and draft of the Order has been finalised, project teams should then formally write to the ORR to apply for the new Level Crossing Order to be confirmed.

    Supporting documentation should accompany this letter including the; draft Order, ground plan, signalling scheme plan, narrative risk assessment (including the 9-day traffic census) and any correspondence received from the initial consultation. This list is not exhaustive and the ORR may request additional information.

    Project teams should also write to the local traffic authority at this stage, advising them that Network Rail has applied for a new Order. You should include the draft Order and ground plan as a minimum. A copy of this letter should also be included in your submission to the ORR.


    [​IMG]


    You should allow a minimum of two months from the date of the letter to allow both the ORR and local traffic authority to make any representations to the Secretary of State.


    [​IMG]


    Again, further amendments to both the Order and design may be required following the conclusion of the consultation period.

    Once the ORR is satisfied with all the proposals and documentation, they will issue a signed copy of the new Level Crossing Order which will come into effect on the commissioning date.
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Hey ho. Clearly there is, once again, in common with a few things connected with the WSR, a set of reasons why something cannot happen. What beggars belief in my view is that two years ago funding seems to have been earmarked for the work on Seaward Way and a firm plan was in place.

    It sometimes takes ages for organisations like County Councils to justify expenditure and obtain consent from Members to earmark it for specific projects. And yet here we were two years ago with what on the face of it was a green light. (Sorry I don't have a semaphore form of words for this.) I can understand if this were money raised by the Railway then they might be 'particular' about the finer detail of the plan. But I'll tell you this. If someone comes along with money to solve a problem that will make a crossing safer and keep a railway operational then my comment would be "Great. Please do it."

    I really hope that someone can come forward and say that this whole business is far more than just a view over the type of signalling that would be used. If not then we are back into 'wrong type of signal', 'wrong colour of station building' (Washford) and 'wrong type of locomotive'. All rather pathetic.

    Meanwhile Minehead station remains the largest preserved heritage railway location to have no trains. 'Living Museum' does seem like a misnomer at present.
     
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  20. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Yet curiously, it is quite acceptable apparently to have an automatic crossing in advance of a station platform, where an approaching stopping train is admitted to the platform under a yellow, with the signal protecting the crossing showing red. The crossing sequence is then activated by a 'train ready to start' plunger.
     
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