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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Or, perhaps, the WSSRT has always been fairly quiet with little "political" activity and therefore it was assumed that the same would apply this time? That might help explain the sense of outrage coming from the Trust
     
  2. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The aim is to pressure the PLC, by virtue of the combined shareholding , but there are other aims, such as simplifying the charities structure, removing overlaps, making back office costs cheaper, thus leaving more for the charitable aims,
    Mr Williams is right, it is a hostile takeover, if your the PLC, or aligned to the current PLC board, , its not a hostile take over though of the WSSRT's aims and activities, as these will not be lost if a merger goes ahead, Plus you have to look at the effect of the cosy relationship between the three Chairmen, they are the ones most at risk from any membership, or shareholders revolt, so, of course they will try to portray any threat that might unseat them as being hostile , when the only thing its only really hostile to their refusal to effect much needed change .
     
  3. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    Oh dear. I really do want to stop posting.

    Andy Norman has taken the oppurtunity presented by my saying I will not be posting
    and Rodders withdrawal to libel me !

    We set up for the Flying Scotsman event ( I was number two in the event hierarchy, Mr
    Courtney was Number 1. ) an event control office ( ie to manage the event ) the
    movement of trains, managing locos, marshalling stock etc was managed via the normal
    operating procedures. We were able to use Keith's office on BL No.1 platform ( for which
    we were very grateful ) . We organised a rota of people to man the phones etc for two
    hour stints. Mr Norman volunteered for several shifts.

    Unfortunately he was 'on duty ' when Flying Scotsman slithered to a halt near to MP171.
    Whilst any decisions wrt how to manage passengers assembling at BL for the next train
    should be handled, whether the journey should be shortened etc was within our remit
    what to do about FS was clearly within 'Operations' ie Minehead. Unfortunately Mr
    Norman took it upon himself to contact the footplate crew via a mobile phone ( We
    had of course set up a phone system specific to the event, all communications to
    be via that system. Also whatever was happening or not on the footplate was
    outside our remit. His action was irresponsible, unacceptable and unhelpful )
    . I am afraid I had some strong words to say to him which memory says did
    not go down well. ( presumably he still holds a grudge )

    I have no recollection of discussing Ms. White although I remember that at the
    time I had taken strong exception to some of her views wrt the FS event,
    specifically I think that there was a strong NIVH element. I may well have
    suggested her comments were unhelpful but that is not the implication in
    Mr Norman's assertion.

    In summary.

    I had every right to enter and leave the control office, indeed on several
    occasions I held the fort, similarly I travelled on some of the trains,
    helped with the meet and greet etc. Indeed 12 hour days, a successful
    event. It is a pity the knowledge gained has not been able to be put to
    further use,

    Mr Norman was never 'event manager', he manned the phones for two hours.
    I am fed up with his imaginative happenings.

    Moderators, I have been libelled, please remove said offence.

    Snifter, if people libel me I will feel entitled to defend myself. Meanwhile
    I really do want to stop posting.

    Michael Rowe
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
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  4. 'Merging' could well come to mean the two existing charities separately subsuming into the new entity proposed by our PLC and endorsed by the PDG. Without sight of the agreed terms of reference and road map we just don't know. Will the proposed new charity be a truly member-led organisation or merely a PLC vehicle? Our primary focus at this time is to facilitate the WSSRT becoming an integral part of 'One Railway'. Nobody wishes to create more WSR-support charities than necessary.

    We previously stated our wish to encourage our PLC to expedite the restructuring process. If the PDG report is to be believed, that is already happening and is to be welcomed. The PLC's stated intention is to seek broad approval from their shareholders and then pass the plan to other stakeholders, including the charities, to approve (or otherwise). I see no mention or clear intention of due consultation with anyone within that PDG report, let alone the broader spectrum of stakeholders outwith the PDG. I therefore remain particularly concerned, while at the same time giving a cautious welcome to the reported PDG consensus.

    I will finish with a quote from the penultimate paragraph of the Bailey Report concerning his proposals: They are not a definitive road map. They merely outline the contours on which it could be drawn. Its draughtsmen would be the various member organisations of the West Somerset Railway family.
     
  5. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Michael,

    Actually, Andy was there all day when I was working at the events. He kept a highly detailed journal when I dropped into the office first thing at BL, he was there when I was asked to infill at Roebuck and he was still there when I was finally at MD giving some guidance to the paid security at the crossing. The FS coming to a halt was on a different day IIRC therefore clearly far more than 2 hours.

    If the books still exist then the hand written events with dates and times will tell all. No need for any imagination. I still have the event control number stored on my phone, the last 3 digits being 954.
     
  6. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    How did 60103 slip to a stand on WSR? Plenty of other Pacifics gave done well on WSR.
     
  7. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    I am fed up. He may well have been sitting on the station, he was not on duty all day.
    You may well have the event phone number but I was on duty throughout the event,
    I was involved with the planning of the event from day one. We were a small but
    dare I say it under Frank (C ) a very effective team. Neither you or Andy AFAIK
    had any involvement. . Andy responded to a call for persons to take shifts in
    the control room.

    Snifter please do not attempt to excuse Andy. He has exaggerated his involvement
    and he has libelled me.

    Michael Rowe
     
  8. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    It was wet. Dinmore Manor came to the rescue as I recall, a feather in its cap. I think going over operational incidents from several years ago is a new extreme, even for West Somerset.
     
  9. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    If you really want the whole story here goes. I was Events Manager on a number of days, most certainly not 2 hours at a time it was half day shifts and I did 6 from memory each back to back so 3 full days, 2 of them to cover for somebody who was due to do the afternoon ones after me in the morning but dropped out at the last moment. I was responsible for all things not coming under the remit of the Line Controller who was also based in the same office working closely with the Event Manager so I was dealing with everything other than the running of the trains. I never stated you shouldn’t have been there, although you didn’t have a role at that time.

    I was on duty when FS slid to a halt and the Line Controller dealt with that issue not me, I informed my team regarding the delay and the Line Controller/Crews/Signalmen dealt with the operational rescue. It worked well because it allowed the Line Controller to focus only on the movements being safe and effective and me everything else, we were stood next to each other during that incident so knew actually what the other was doing and saying. I had no concerns about safe operation in fact when it happened I was pleased to see how safety all the people concerned acted, it was a pleasure to see it in operation.

    The instance you refer to was not FS sliding to a halt and I never used a mobile phone to contact a driver. Driver Hurd whilst coming across Seaward Way Crossing inbound to MD had to stop because photographers had got to close on the crossing. The hired in security Guard who should have been at the crossing to stop this was not there, the security team was under my remit, I contacted the Head of the security team and she got the guard back in place for the outward leg. I also contacted Brian Fraser (Snifter) to re-allocate him to the other side of the crossing (fully PTS trained) so it was double manned to ensure no repeat.

    I then contacted Driver Hurd on the land line during his lay over at MD shed, he came to the shed phone whilst he was not driving and not distracted. I confirmed to him the arrangements I had made as he had reported the incident. This was done with the knowledge and understanding of the Line Controller who was away from the office at that time, it was him I contacted on his mobile phone as he was further down the BL Platform dealing with another matter.

    The concept of Event Manager/Line Controller worked well, I do remember you telling me not to speak to anybody about the incident, you will recall I ignored your comments given I was in the office and best placed to deal with the situation for the safety of all. Everybody acted in a truly professional way and at the end of the day the Head of Security and I had a meeting to investigate why their guard was in the wrong place, we cured the issue so there would be no repeat. I also recorded the issue in the Event Book in full for post event de-brief.

    You will also remember that the train tracking system and on train phone system you refer to didn’t work much of the time due to blank spots, one of which was MD station on one day because somebody forgot to switch the aerial booster on at MD. I recorded in the Event Book exactly where the dead spots were by radio check with the train Guard every mile or so along the route by mile post, it was one of the things that didn’t work well.

    Regarding Libel, it’s only Libel if it’s not true.

    However all of this is just a distraction, but again this is just one small incident regarding Culture, I was volunteering, I felt I did a good job but again the Culture of the WSR has for a long time been people just be-little other people constantly. Your visit to the Control Room was not a nice one for me, I felt you were just trying to stamp your authority on the event and stop me doing things during your short visit, I didn’t feel any ‘collaborative working’, you said various other things about what I was doing and how I should not be acting which I also choose to ignore.

    For the record I do think both you and Rodney should continue to post, everybody should be allowed to express their views and I welcome your response, I just can’t agree with what you have written.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  10. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    >>>My reservation with this merger ....., if it takes place, may well cause defections from the two societies - particularly the WSSRT....

    Speaking as a WSRA member (not quite in the league of Rameses II, but a fairly old relic nonetheless :) ), I fail to see why any such merger should give cause for myself - or any other 'ordinary' WSRA member - to 'defect'. I have no problems with what, or how, the WSSRT currently do on the WSR, so why would I object if we were 'working together' as part of one joint group for the overall benefit of the WSR? And to where would I 'defect' anyway, if I wished to continue my involvement with the WSR?

    Although I am not a WSSRT member, I can imagine that perhaps - as a much smaller organisation - its members might have a sense/foreboding of being 'subsumed' into a much larger body and thereby become 'diluted' in what they do. (But, of course, as yet they have not been asked for their opinion.) Whilst they may wish to continue doing what they do independently, perhaps the need to do that instead as a part of a larger group will be one of the compromises necessary in order to create Peaceful Somerset anytime before the next millenium?

    But, as they say, 'let the people speak' - so hopefully their voices will be heard at a WSSRT AGM in the very near future.
     
  11. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    You are quite correct apart from taking 3 days leave from work during the event so I could be rostered for various duties at stations, crossings and infill as required. Others put in an amazing amount of time and it was great fun to be part of the team. It was quite something to see the then chairman emptying the bins on the grounds that we were all pitching in together. Changed days.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Well, gosh …

    Tom
     
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  13. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    It was the wrong type of rain coming sideways as a nasty heavy drizzle just at the wrong time, in a cutting, up a 1 in 80, on reverse curves and the presence of a greaser on the rails didn’t help at all. FS didn’t disgrace herself given the combination of factors all at the same time, but Dinmore was the hero and has the bragging rights.

    FS had 8 fully laden coaches, Dinmore was sat back at BL with the balancing train also of 8 fully laden waiting to follow. Dinmore was uncoupled and sent to bank FS, which it did with ease to CH. It then returned to BL coupled up its own train and took the bank with ease and no sign of a slip with the same weight of train.

    As I mentioned in my previous post, I was next to the Line Controller listening to the communications between Signalmen, Controller, Driver and Guard. All followed the rule book to the letter, repeated everything and cross confirmed the protection and movements, the impressive thing was they all acted automatically with no emotion and cool heads and all knew the rule book in detail, it was text book.
     
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  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    You lost for words? Just like me.
     
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  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Back to more germane matters....
    The new WSSRT AGM date is set for the 14th November, which by my reckoning is a whole 7 days before the Plc AGM. http://www.wssrt.co.uk/2020/09/28/annual-general-meeting/ What is more, membership applications will re-open from the 1st October. And that is why I'm not a betting man, I'd be very poor if I was!
     
  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Good news. A decision, whatever the outcomes of that meeting, that respects the principle that if the WSSRT shareholding is to be in play at the AGM, it should be in control of the "new" board of trustees, not the "old" board whose mandate may or may not be robust at that time.
     
  17. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are going to be unhappy people, this is the WSR, where it is impossible to please all of the people any of the time. However, whichever way you look at it, the WSRA has no future in its current role. If we "evolve" and go the Bailey way, then the new overarching charity becomes the membership organisation, leaving the WSRA as little more than a locomotive and rolling stock owning group, if we "revolve" and go the merger route, it becomes a new organisation, but retaining within it all its current structure and operations, just under a different name. To some people, that is not so important as the fish and the ponds. Under the Bailey Plan, the same ponds remain, with the same big fish in them, just some ponds might be a bit smaller. There will be a new pond, no bigger than the existing pond, and it will have some new big fish in it, just like the other big fish. Under the alternative plan there will be a new big pond, with a lot of new fish in it which are quite unlike the old fish and possibly bigger than them. The current big fish don't like that idea.
     
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  18. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Oh dear! What can we complain about now?;)
     
  19. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I believe another big green Gresley 4-6-2 slipped to a stand on another railway in the south west and had to be rescued by one of Charlie Collett’s finest a few years ago. (Yes No9 I’m looking at you)
     
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  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    There must be some other historical operational incidents on the WSR to pick over in extraordinary detail to keep us going for the next 6 weeks...
     

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