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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Did you write that post for a bet?

    Oh no, you think I am a troll because I choose to be anonymous. Be still my beating heart.

    Save the macho ******** for someone who might be impressed.
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I must say though, that having said what I said about rating posters on their past posts rather than whether they choose to reveal their name, I'm not sure that some of your more hostile posts are particularly helpful. I'm with @35B in not wanting Natpres to simply be seen as the opposite side of the same coin the Facebook group is on, I fear many already think we are as it is.
     
  3. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    John,
    I’m saddened to see you as a fellow lawyer fall into the trap of assuming rumour can be represented as fact.
    To my certain knowledge the PLC has never asserted the invalidity of the Extension Agreement. The problem is that in considering whether to agree with the PLC’s application to refuse the grant of a new tenancy the Court would be bound to look at the legal basis on which the Trust occupied the Washford site following expiry of the original lease term in April this year, In my view a basic error by both parties meant the Extension Agreement was always void. However I suggested that they should each seek expert legal advice on that issue. I assume that the decisions that they have made take that advice into account.
    It’s appropriate at this point to record that the discussions between thePLC and the S anD Trust on the future of Washford have been friendly, positive and constructive. As the HRA nominated facilitator I have been impressed by the determination of both parties to arrive at a solution that is their respective long term interests.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2020
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  4. echap

    echap New Member

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    Please excuse me for making a few comments and observations. We seem to be in the middle of a series of playground spats, i.e. someone runs to the teacher and says "Please Miss, little Johnny (or any other name you like) called me a rude word" but there were no witnesses and it becomes he said/she said/they said ad inifitum. Seriously, there should be a diverse range of opinions on here and obviously not everyone can agree with everything, just like real life. Let us all try to tolerate other opinions and where possible make constructive criticism or measured comments that can allow the debate to expand.

    I am not a member of any WSR organisation but have enjoyed many journeys on the line. I actually think that the open weekends in August were a good idea based on the limitations faced by the railway. I suspect that they were so different to what is normal at WSR that made them unpopular on here but it got the public looking at trains at the very least and bought in much needed cash.

    Also, with all the worries about money, is not the stone operation at NF supposed to be still going? If so, that must be extra income to the WSR.

    My absolute honest belief is that there have been some terrible decisions made on the railway and this has reflected badly across all the organisations concerned who call themselves supporters of the line. I do hope that a way forward can be found, such as the Bailey report or other suggested structures. I find it very odd that some on here keep talking as if the line is about to close for good. Surely we all want the line to survive and then regroup as fellow railway and heritage enthusiasts?

    I have volunteered on both a heritage railway and canal restoration groups, so am aware of the difficulties that strong personalities can cause an organisation. I think an air of fear has been allowed to fester (whether real or imagined) and this is holding the railway back. It must be very difficult for those volunteers who simply wish to turn up at their station for a days duty and not want to stir up trouble. Whilst we on here have our views, there must be many on the WSR who are not even aware of what we say!!

    Finally (oh good I can hear you all say), I am aware that I am not as expert in many ares of management of a railway or fully up to date with legislation, but I just hope that I can try to make a positive addition to all the views on here, in my own small way and hope that the discussion on here tries to remain as upbeat as possible.

    Ed Chap
     
  5. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Fascinating to see how the PLC could arrive at a '............solution that is (in its) ...long term interest' other than to withdraw the Notice to Quit as clearly the dispute has seriously damaged its reputation
     
  6. D1002

    D1002 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Interesting. Surely the best solution is to revoke the eviction order, or at least extend the deadline date whilst these ‘friendly’ discussions continue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  7. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure there is going to be much changing of minds where the WSR is concerned. But maybe I'm getting a false impression from the denizens of NP; much of the rest of the heritage rail world may be rather oblivious to the events there (although there are straws in the wind, like response levels to appeals).

    Noel
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  8. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Indeed it is. However, when you have the likes of Monkey Magic and Julian making their demands, there is little prospect. Aggression and demands rarely succeed, they only harden attitudes; ask Arthur Scargill.
     
  9. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    So who is 'Steve'?

    And why is 'Lineisclear' (John Bailey) unable to post a reply that shows his reply properly, and why does he ignore a significant chunk of law in favour of the SDRT lease (holding over, estoppel, equitable leases) if as he claims the 2018 new lease is defective?

    And the other elephant in the room as to the WSSRT lease if simarlarly defective allegedly?

    No wonder the WSSRT board are in agreement with the WSR Plc Board!
     
  10. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Have you told that to the PLC?

    I think you overstate NPs importance. I doubt very much that when the history of the WSR is written it will say 'unfortunately agreement between the WSR and the SDRT was impossible because of hostile posters on the Internet.'

    Needless to say, if this is such a stumbling block, I am sure those involved can master a PM with any requests to any posters.
     
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  11. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    How many times do I have to point out that the recommendation was that both parties take Legal advice on the issue!
    The possibility of estoppel was raised in my redacted report which I believe Julian has seen. I have not seen the legal advice that has been obtained so have no idea if my reservations about the validity of the Extension agreement have been vindicated.
     
  12. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Tomorrow 'Steve', whoever you are, you might like to reconsider your post and contemplate an apology. Quite happy if via a PM on here.

    What you see on here is just the tip of the iceberg - very many of us on here have been toiling away behind the scenes (not on Nat Pres) trying to help and assist the SDRT since 10th February.

    It is scandalous what has happened. Ethically, morally, and legally.
     
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  13. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    A well respected member of the forum, who also has a fully populated "profile".

    T'is only a typo, we all make them, and comments like these detracts from your post, much as I respect you have an informed opinion on the legal aspect, probably more than most on here.
     
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  14. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    Thanks for your understanding! I’m trying as best I can to clarify my role as a facilitator but I’m not used to Nat Pres in the way that other frequent posters are so please accept my apologies.
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    One could ask the same question about you: who is Julian Atkins? There is more to assessing credibility than user name. I’d wager that quite a number of people on several heritage railways - not just NYMR and Middleton - know who @Steve is and what his credentials are. Or else you can judge by the quality of his posts over a long period not only on this thread, but on others.

    By contrast - we know your full name, but do we know your credentials? On a number of occasions on this subject you have made comments that indicate you have a specific, detailed knowledge of non public-domain information relating to contracts and leases; ultimately we have to take it on trust you actually know what you claim to know. I don’t see how having a public profile that gives a full name lends any more or less credibility to that. Over time we all tend to form a view of any individual poster as to whether they are more often well-informed or not; on which subjects they have particular expertise or not; and the general tone - reasoned or otherwise - of their replies.

    Tom
     
  16. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, John, and the SDRT obtained considerable legal advice following on from 10th February.

    Your redacted sections of your report failed to consider other than one element that you homed in on.

    You also failed to consider the 50 year lease granted to the WSSRT around the same time and whether this was valid under the scrutiny you subjected the SDRT lease to.

    If you were now to say the WSSRT new 50 year lease is ok, then I think a few eye brows might be raised!
     
  17. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Be a real man/woman then and stand up and defend your posting.

    West Somerset Railway General Discussion

    ...rather than going bust had it not been for JJP using his contacts to keep the railway going.
    This is news to me, and perhaps, to redress the balance, which seems to see JJP in a not too flattering light, you might be able to expand a little on this.

    He clearly has not been blowing his own trumpet as to how his expertise and contacts have done so much good, and evidence available publicly does not enable anyone to see how he and his contacts have done more than rejig some numbers on the balance sheet and flog off or hock a few assets.

    I'd love to be able to revise my views in the light of some new evidence.

    West Somerset Railway General Discussion

    rather than going bust had it not been for JJP using his contacts to keep the railway going.
    This is interesting news. Please can you enlarge on what Mr Jones-Pratt and his contacts have done? I am sure many of us would welcome some positive news, and I am quite certain that the WSR as a whole would be delighted if there were some positive publicity to counter the views expressed in these pages.
    This is your opportunity to redress the balance of opinion
     
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  18. John Palmer

    John Palmer New Member

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    Exactly what rumour is it that you accuse me of representing as fact?

    On 21st April 2018 the Chairmen of the S&DRT and the WSR plc signed an agreement extending the Trust's 1991 lease for a further 50 years until 30th April 2070. Clause 28 of that agreement stipulated that the agreement might be terminated in either of two circumstances, neither of which have arisen. The plc directed its solicitors to give the S&DRT Notice to Quit in the absence of either of those circumstances. Such a direction can only be consistent with a view formed by the plc that it was no longer bound by the commitment it gave in the 2018 agreement to permit the Trust to remain in occupation of the Washford site until 2070 unless either of the circumstances specified in clause 28 intervened to bring about an earlier end to the agreement.

    I am not otherwise going to engage with you about some 'basic error' that you believe rendered void the 2018 agreement whilst you are not prepared to identify what the nature of that error is. I asked you to provide some clarification of the scope of the putative error in post https://www.national-preservation.c...eviction-notice.1417790/page-147#post-2598268. Having declined to do so, you can have no complaint if I in turn decline to take on trust what you say.

    So far as I can see, in 2018 the Trust and the plc entered into a valid written contract, and the plc's refusal to be bound by its terms is implicit in its service of Notice to Quit. I am, therefore, entirely in the dark as what misrepresentation of the facts I am supposed to have made.
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I’m sure that it has been mentioned previously that the lease the WSR has from SCC does not allow the granting of a 50 year sub lease. However, I’m not going to trawl back to find it. I’m sure that Lineisclear can confirm or otherwise.
     
  20. Piggy

    Piggy Member

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    So that lawyers can make even more money ... ?
     

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