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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 62440

    62440 New Member

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  2. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Whether or not one regards the nomination of new candidates for election as Steam Trust trustees as a "coup", it does seem to me to offer the only prospect of an early change of direction in the management of the (whole) WSR, which in turn seems to me to offer the best prospect of avoiding total closure. It is conceivable that the PLC under its present management could somehow survive, resume operations and remain solvent long-term; but many posts on this thread have given reasons why that is very implausible. It is slightly more plausible that the scheme reported by Andy Norman (which he very properly refused to be part of) could succeed. That could represent survival of a sort, but would anyone here approve of it?
     
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  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    my challenge to that is I don't see any signs of outward dissent or rebellion in the ranks . Whilst people may be privately dismayed and I know people are , the collective strength that could be deployed is not there . I do appreciate that this is a hobby and should be free from the politics of normal life and people just want to volunteer, have time with friends and go home . If people really care passionately they need to stand up and be counted and not tacitly give support to the regime driving this
     
  4. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Having been 'involved' with the S&DRT to some greater or lesser extent from prior to its departure from Radstock until I ceased to be a member at the end of the 2012, I can endorse the comments made by John Palmer about the effect on the S&D heritage now under threat again.

    >>>Then there's the recreation of Midford Signal Box's interior – I took a look at this during the recent Open Day and saw for myself the problems and risks to be faced in dismantling and preserving it.

    An exhibit of great interest to me ever since I helped the late Peter Cattermole dismantle the frame at Woolston and load it into his car ! However ironically there could be one advantage here, in that any recreation at a new site might enable the construction of a reproduction of an actual S&DJR signal-box design, whereas at WD it was - by force of circumstances - squashed into an unsuitable ex-GWR structure that was so small that not even all the interlocking could be installed :-( However I know that a lot of the 'mechanical' stuff is well worn so maybe, after about 40 years of service, it would time for it to be 'retired' and a different prototype chosen for a future new display. But I can see such things being well down their list of immediate priorities.....
     
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  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree. I should have added to my post telling JJP and co to hang their heads in shame; I don't believe that the HRA have come out of this particularly well. Whoopie do, they identified a legal deficiency that cast doubt on the entire lease. I have no particular reason to doubt that opinion (although others, some better informed, have) but the HRA really should have done better in my view. They let one of their members down considerably. There was a lot more to the issue than whether the lease was legally valid, or there should have been, in the eyes of the HRA.
     
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  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'm unsure about that; I think what is visible underplays the role waiting out can play in a situation like this, and the strength of feeling that may be apparent once there is a visible chance of success. As for caring passionately, we can see "the 14" as at least the tip of an iceberg.
     
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    In defence of @Lineisclear, whether or not his questions are right, it is better that the questions should have been clear before further escalations.
     
  8. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree, I'm not disputing that the legal problem was a problem, or that it shouldn't have been properly explored, just that in my view, there was a lot more to it than a rather narrow legal interpretation. Certainly from a body that is supposed to represent heritage organisations and their interests. There was very little exploration as to whose interests these actions were in, and whether they could be better realised in another way. All the HRA did in respect of the Washford issue was provide a free legal service, when they could, and I think, should, have taken a more holistic view.
     
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  9. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The present board of the PLC won't voluntary change their ways, why should they, they have the power, the membership has to remove that power from them. and only then can change happen, and they are assisted in holding on to that power by people holding onto old hatreds between the WSRA and WSSRT, As these two organisations are the key to removing the current board members, combine their shareholding, and the power shifts away from the board members, at the moment the WSSRT are doing the PLC's dirty work for them. in allowing this shambles to go on longer than it should, and saving the PLC, may not save the line, if you want to save the line, you need to change the current board, identify the problems, and start bringing people together under the one railway, one organisation ethos.
     
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  10. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Funnily enough I’ve been sorting through some of my back issues of Steam Railway and found a rather interesting piece spread over 2 issues called ‘What has the HRA ever done for us?’
    I think the S&DRT could answer that with ‘Naff all’
     
  11. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    If there is the threat of being banned from the hobby you are passionate about simply for showing dissatisfaction at the direction being taken by the management, then I would not take a lack of public dissent as any sort of indicator whatsoever.
     
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  12. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    For the record, and I will pick my words carefully. I share yours and others opinions that this plan explained to me back in late 2018/early 2019 was not very likely to succeed. I expressed that view to the people concerned in detail as to why I thought firstly it was the wrong thing to do and secondly that it was not thought through or viable for a number of reasons. Needless to say I was told I was wrong and one of the people concerned had a view that the PLC was just another commercial business that could be taken over through holding shares as any other commercial business can be. The community involvement, overall heritage reasons for the WSR being there and volunteers views/support didn't really rate in that persons thoughts.

    I don't know if this is a current plan or it was a plan that has since been scrapped as I was removed from the 'inner circle' shortly afterward so I can't know, I do know as its on public record that a PLC Director has approached SCC to buy the Freehold twice since that time, but there could of course be other reasons for that which have never been released.

    Note I have also not disclosed who the two people are (given the nature of some), only 'WSR Management' and that could cover people sat on any of three Boards. This picks up on the current complex situation that's so intertwined and ingrained with the people concerned that in my opinion only a total clean sweep will ever allow a situation where the WSR can resolve its issues, live in peace and focus on moving forward. This whole thing has got to a very, very messy level, people speaking to me are walking away from things talking about stress, worry and fearing they can't be involved because its too difficult with others getting, shall we say 'very passionate' in the way they act.

    Even with my internal WSR knowledge I'm struggling to see how any of 'the sides' can or should 'win', only a big bang may fix this so I can see why people are dis-engaging, and indeed I include myself with that sadly. Its ultimately only a hobby and all should enjoy it and look forward to going to the WSR in any capacity of their choosing to engage how they wish to engage, even if they don't agree with a fellow colleagues views.

    As with all my comments I make them under the Public Interest Disclosures Act having exhausted all internal routes and feeling that the WSR community has a right to know certain limited and relevant things, so all those involved can form their own opinions and views and can act or not act as they see fit.

    In order to balance the argument a little, the lack of action from the rank and file people of the WSR in the shareholders, members, stakeholders and volunteers over current events including the expulsion of the S&DRT does seem to indicate that the 'people of the WSR' are happy for the current path to continue in their name, otherwise they would have risen up and said so given the importance of all of this to the WSR's future direction. This being the case I've said about as much as I can and must accept the majority of peoples views because that's democracy, even if I don't agree. All I can do is find another hobby !!
     
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  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    There will have been terms of reference, and John has consistently been clear that both sides have needed to take legal advice.
     
  14. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thank you for taking the time to reply and for confirming my doubts. I take no pleasure in seeing the WSR tear itself apart but cannot see a solution to the issues it faces.

    It seems sad to me that you feel the need to find another hobby.
     
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  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I won't "like" that because "like" seems so utterly inappropriate a term, but thank you for your honesty.
     
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  16. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Hence Alex's comment...
    Good point, but what's really notable about this particular discussion is that it took place at all; I struggle to imagine such a scheme being seriously discussed at length at {insert another major heritage railway of your choice}.
    Or at least another location at which to indulge their hobby. This might be extremely burdensome for those whose dedication to the WSR is such that they're e.g. actually living in a WSR'S station-master's house, or something... but it might unfortunately be necessary as part of a 'clean sweep', which tries to really end the seemingly interminable warfare by removing all the participants. (I personally am quite dubious that any less-radical solution will have any hope of success.)

    The real danger for the WSR in all this is that many outside the WSR (and I include myself in this group) are so utterly tired of the never-ending, often-vicious, wrangling which infests it, that if and when the line faces an existential crisis (as it may well do, given its massive infrastructure needs, and its long-declining income), even the likely loss of one of the biggest jewels in the heritage crown (an entire, lengthy, preserved branch line, in a scenic setting) is likely to not move people to help - a response which the heritage community overall have successfully produced in the past for similar challenges elsewhere.

    Noel
     
  17. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Maybe some fear losing access to the railway if they speak out.

    Maybe some have personal scores to settle.

    Maybe some hope kissing up to the board will bring some rewards.

    2 out of 3?
     
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  18. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    They can't have been that prescriptive, as it allowed an examination of the whole structure of the WSR! I'm not making any complaint about the way the legal side was examined or dealt with at all, and I agree John has been clear, and I welcome his comments here. Just that the operational and emotional arguments were not examined at all. There's was never any question that the S&DT wouldn't be leaving.
     
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  19. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for confirming your previous post that was dredged up from the depths by FS123. It matters not what you or I or anyone else considers how viable any particular plan might be - It only matters if a person who is in a position to work towards that plan considers it to be viable.
     
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  20. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to grasp that failure of the line is a real possibility. If not, you need to wake up.

    Which line will you be volunteering on if and when that happens? Not the KESR, we can assume?

    Noel
     
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