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Recommissioning after Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by johnofwessex, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    I see the GWSR have just announced they are planning to restart a limited service from August 15th. All pre booked only with more details to come.
     
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  2. AMP

    AMP Member

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    K&ESR are looking to resume steam operations from 18/07/20. Two rounds trips per day at weekends.

    Some positives at last!

    Andrew
     
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  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The Middleton Railway is planning to resume a limited service on 2nd August. Just Sundays initially as a toe in the water. Steam to start with and see how it goes. Probably pre-booking but still to be decided.
    The Railway celebrates the 60th Anniversary of start of operations this Saturday. It should have been a gala but now will just be a symbolic train, timed to run at exactly the same time as that first train on 20th June 1960 and hauled by the same locomotive (Hunslet 1697 'John Alcock'.) No passengers as that's still not allowed.
     
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  4. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

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    Useful to look at the R0 numbers, which is the basic reproduction number with no interventions & no immunity within the population.

    R0 for Covid-19 is 5-6, HIV is 2-5. Influenza tops out around 3.

    The interventions for HIV haven't affected peoples daily life, or how places operate.
    With HIV there are treatments that make those that take them 'undetectable', which means they can't pass it on, & treatments for pre & post exposure that can prevent infection.

    Even if there was a Covid-PREP available for those that are most vulnerable, you would still need to slow/control the spread through the rest of the population (assuming either no vaccine or one is years away) as you can't have half the workers off at the same time.
     
  5. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Just to clarify, there are two similarly named pharmaceuticals relevant to HIV, neither of which has proven effective against Covid-19, although several antiretroviral compounds from the HIV 'stockpile' remain in testing (which I rechecked to confirm, immediately before posting this).

    PEP
    (post exposure phrophylactic) reduces the virus to "undetectable" levels (a bit like Domestos 'kills 99.9% of all known germs" i.e so far a testing goes, seems to have eradicated the virus in those previously infected but as with 'germs' killed by bleaches, in time, measurable quantities of virus reappear as if from nowhere), whereas PrEP (pre exposure prophylactic) which, on a constant dose, prevents infection with HIV (though not infection by hepatitis or any other viral or bacterial STI).

    A couple of key difference between Covid-19 and HIV viruses are that the coronavirus appears to persist for many hours (possibly up to around 72hrs) in the environment, whilst HIV, outside the body, dies off rapidly and that, mercifully, there's no record of HIV infection by airborne particulates or surface contact.
     
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  6. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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    I will be thinking of all my friends at the Middleton on Saturday. I wish I could be with you to celebrate this anniversary

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
     
  7. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Apparently trains will be entirely compartment stock, with maximum length 6 carriages so none are off the platform. It will be complete round trips only starting at Toddington. 2 round trips per day to begin with, timetable will have space for a second train if the demand is there.
     
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  8. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    Reading provisional plans from other organisations it seems that many are planning along similar lines. Compartment stock, one family/booking per compartment, pre booking only, round trips starting a Terminus A and carriage sets swapped for cleaning between each round trip.

    It will not fill the coffers but at least it will make some contributions towards costs.
     
  9. jon5051

    jon5051 Member

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    Very different operation to many listed above, but I see the Groudle Glen is reopening on 5th July
     
  10. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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  11. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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  12. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    I think "tourism" in the sense of travelling as individuals or small groups finding out different places, peoples or ways of life has always been a minority thing. The mass market has changed from seaside holidays, via holiday centres to "Butlitz afloat" i.e. cruise liners. Doubtless it will continue to evolve
     
  13. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    The Guardian article is a good overview of international tourism. The main problem with the rise of cruise ships is that thwy only fo ashore for day trips and the towns/cities people do not get any income other than payment for a few souvenirs.
    As well as cruises the affluent tourist is being replaced by those seeking low cost flights and airbnb.
    It's possible with the reluctance to travel we may get the resurgence of British seaside holidays, which may help heratige railways?.
     
  14. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Whilst it is good to see such trips as the Jacobite having a proposed restart date I assume it will be a lot "safer" to run tours in the summer when windows can be opened than in the winter. I know that in the winter keeping those happy who want to hear the loco, and more "normal" passengers suffering a draught further down the coach because of it can be an issue.
    The Christmas Market tours appear to be the bulk of the late November and December railtour market. These markets may not happen of course, or happen on a reduced scale (Lincoln springs to mind where social distancing with the numbers usually attracted and the station queuing systems could be a challenge).
    This is the latest SAGE analysis I could find, it is two weeks old, which is a long time in this crisis, but whilst it mentions ventilation a lot, no mention is made of heat and any impact on spread.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... asures.pdf
    Trains that either carry a diesel for ETH or are ETH heated on the non steam legs are often very hot in some coaches whilst cool in others. Does excessive heat make the spread worse, I have no idea although GP surgeries often seem to me to be unhealthily hot, so maybe not.
    The other thing SAGE mention of course is hand washing. Platform unavailability often means tour stock has to be removed soon after arrival, meaning no chance to replenish toilet tanks. I have been on many tours where water has run out in toilets, but in the past this was normally manageable by asking customers to walk elsewhere on the train. I would expect a higher demand for water going forward will TOC's allow the use of their facilities for third party tours? VWC for example were always very good at Carlisle, but I believe the H&S safety case said the replenishment had to be undertaken by their own staff. Not sure what the Avanti position may be now they are the operator.
    I guess we may find out come the colder months.
     
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  15. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member Friend

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    Not directly comparable, but I was reading an article yesterday on the recent outbreak at a meat processing plant. Among the reasons given were "Anywhere cold, damp and indoors is an ideal environment for the coronavirus to thrive. It survives best on cool surfaces, especially if there's no dry breeze to get rid of the moisture or any ultraviolet light from the sun to kill it off."

    Unfortunately I've boarded many a heritage railway carriage on an early morning in winter which fits that description to a T.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53100321
     
  16. NathanP

    NathanP Member

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    It'll be a while before solo travellers, such as myself, can start going to heritage railways again. The re-opening plans all involve using compartment stock for pre-booked groups so I'll have to wait until the open stock is in service again.
     
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  17. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member Friend

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    As a fellow solo traveller, if the price is 'per compartment' then in theory I am not stopped from travelling but it would represent an extreme version of the 'single person supplement' that I have to pay on most package holidays and the like.

    I'm also interested to see if and how broken journeys can be done. For example on the SVR, would it be possible to visit the Engine House mid-journey, or are you committed to a whole line round trip only.
     
  18. D1002

    D1002 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I’m pretty sure we will see some relaxation of the social distancing rules within the next couple of weeks. It’s probably the only way to make operation of pubs and restaurants financially viable, and would, of course, make things easier for Heritage Sites. OK. May have to involve a meticulous cleaning routine and possibly the wearing of face masks indoors, but is seems to be the only way forward.
    It will then be down to the individual to make their own mind up. Go out and socialise or continue to stay at home.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
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  19. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I gather it's not that high, but the rate varies a lot depending on age, so the aggregate rate will depend on the age profile of the group. E.g. a study of the cruise-ship that got it early on showed a rate of about .5%, which is similar to early reports from S Korea. However, a recent Swiss study among many thousands of people under 50 years old for whom blood tests showed COVID antibodies gave a death rate of 0.005%. Italy had quite high numbers, but in a population with a lot of elderly. Etc, etc, etc.

    Noel
     
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  20. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    If heritage trains run this summer might initally be young families form the bulk of passengers rather than older passengers?.
    In the summer heritage railway carriages can be run with windows wedged fully open to improve ventilation and reduce risk (providing any rain is not heavy!), but can see later in the year unless carriages have good heating could be problem?
     

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