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S&D Railway Trust

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. City of truro fan

    City of truro fan Member

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    The WSR might be able to take the wagons away as the siding is joined up to their rails.
     
  2. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that's a good assumption. Certainly the 'cuckoo' press release wasn't thought through (although it shouldn't have even needed to get that far, to see that it was a bad move).

    Noel
     
  3. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    ??? Where would the WSR take the wagons to and why? The wagons belong to the S&DRT and if any future move was to take place, then it would be logical that the wagons would be moved by low loader from Washford.

    Keith
     
  4. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    You might want to consider the effectiveness of your correspondence style for the purpose you are trying to achieve.

    Robin
     
  5. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Pots and kettles given the superb communication skills demonstrated by the WSR and its supporters over the years, months and last few weeks.
     
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  6. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Touche! :)
     
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  7. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    Robin why are the WSR Leadership still trying to undermine people who post things here they don’t like? We all hold our own passionate views and here is a great place to have robust debate between people with strongly held opinions, and you yourself are more than capable of dishing out such debate. But yesterday you accused Julian of threatening physical violence against you when he didn’t, is that stepping over an invisible line ? Plus you are still escalating the argument by attacking his approach to debate here without dealing with his questions.

    It reminded me of my PLC requested mediation meeting (you will remember what happened well of course as you and your Board have the full notes) back in November when the PLC Board Representative apart from other very open bullying statements offered me “a roll around on the platform to sort it out” the meeting also finished in the same way as here with "stop talking about this or you are not coming back, your complaint is going nowhere, give it up".

    Is this really what the WSR Leadership has come too in order to justify its actions? It does seem that currently the WSR Leadership can start a fight in an empty room.

    Regarding you asking Julian what he is going to do to help the WSR through covid19, I recall posts in the main thread a few weeks back when Julian was explaining to Mike after Mike was making the same ‘help us out instead of moaning’ call last time that he had tried to join and volunteer on the WSR a number of times and how Mike had not followed up or arranged (after offering to do so) a visit to the WSR so Julian could go through an induction which means he can't volunteer to help out. And before you ask what I’m going to do, again you and your Board know that story very well because you have all the emails and my compliant from Jan 19 (still not started), I’m banned so can’t help the WSR out in its time of need even if I wanted too. It seems that the WSR desperately wants help but also remains very picky about where that help comes from. How does that help the WSR through this?

    Perhaps can I suggest you recognise that yesterday perhaps your passions got the better of you and show that the WSR Leadership can be flexible and negotiate with people and withdraw your accusation and allow everybody to refocus on the facts. The question still remains, where does the WSRA sit regarding the S&DRT Eviction?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  8. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    My working life involves exploring in open court some really difficult issues - like folk who believe they have suffered horrible discrimination. That is always done with courtesy and restraint, without avoiding issues. With respect, a number of posts - most recently from Julian - have used inflammatory language. It doesn’t help. It excludes rather than includes.

    I try to think of myself speaking to the person I am writing to - or a member of a group. It can reduce the worst excesses.

    TBH I was considering not responding at all, given the level of ‘flak’ Mike and I have been getting for a decision by another railway body.

    But you must do what you think best and I will do what I think most advances the railway’s cause at this difficult time. That is unlikely to include much time spent on this thread.

    TTFN
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  9. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Nevertheless this is still "pot and kettle" stuff as @Monkey Magic was right in observing and a comment you were decent enough to acknowledge.
     
  10. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree. No-one, least of all me, is perfect. I have to live with my faults every day. You only get to experience them occasionally!

    Robin
     
  11. Piggy

    Piggy Member

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    Wouldn't that be trespass and theft ?
     
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  12. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    Andy - you say you are "banned" from helping the WSR. Can I ask banned from what? Are you banned from joining the WSRA or WSSRT? Are you banned from making financial donations to various causes? Or helping with "off-site" activities? Banned from operational duties, maybe - and you'd not be the first by a long way over the nearly 50 years of the WSR's existence - but that doesn't mean you are banned from all of it, surely. Perhaps you could clarify? Thanks.

    Steve
     
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  13. garth manor

    garth manor Well-Known Member

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    Landlord has a right to reasonable access with notice, theft would involve a permanent intention to retain, so no.
     
  14. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Are you overlooking, perhaps, the fact that most (all?) wagons normally at Washford are part of the S&DRT collection.

    Robin
     
  15. garth manor

    garth manor Well-Known Member

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    The WSR could move them , and assuming they were not seeking ownership it would not be theft.
     
  16. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    Hi Steve, yes of course.
    1. WSR PLC ID Card removed which means I can’t do anything volunteer wise for anybody on the WSR because as you know a PLC ID Card is the only way you can operate with any part of the one railway family groups and it is the insurance cover you need to be anywhere on the WSR. Therefore I’m locked out of all parts and can’t go on site unless I’m a paying customer in public areas.
    2. The WSRA removed me from my fund raising position and my involvement with the HPC bid, they also removed my WSRA email address thus cutting me off from acting on their behalf and I was removed from their internal communication routes. So I can’t help them even remotely off site.
    3. I was a member of the WSRA for around 5 years but after they refused to support me as a member who was doing what they asked me to do as their Project Manager when my ID Card was removed I did not renew my membership last May because I felt they were not fulfilling their remit to support its members therefore I felt I couldn’t support them financially.
    4. I don’t know if I’m currently a member of the WSSRT. I was , when I recently joined the S&DRT I realised that my monthly DD for the WSSRT had stopped (my fault, account change). I wrote to the WSSRT asking to restart it and of course offered to pay the monthly backlog. All I’ve heard is that they will ‘look into it’ and am currently awaiting a reply.
    5. I recently joined the S&DRT to support them.
    6. I’m of course not banned from making financial contributions to any part of the WSR, but to be honest covid19 or not I don’t feel confident in pouring money into that particular pit at the moment. But I will give my money to the S&DRT instead if they need to fight a legal battle.
    7. Lastly on a personal level without HR Policies for volunteers in place I would be nervous about being on site without a ‘set of fair rules’ to protect me, the safety case being potentially flawed due no HR Policies which it refers to as a part of it and what would happen if I was bullied again without any protection or Association support to stand up for me. So it’s not a simple as saying OK here is your ID Card back all is forgiven, but that’s my choice as a Volunteer with time and money to spend in not feeling safe on the WSR or indeed wanting to currently rather than anything else.
    As the PLC told me in November they do indeed hold all the cards regarding my involvement in the WSR.

    Can I ask you a question in return, as a long standing stalwart of the WSR who has seen much in your time and in part acts as the public face of the WSR (you know I love your web-site and I visit it every day, its far better than any other WSR site): Do you think evicting the S&DRT, removing all Volunteer HR Policies and removing Volunteers who have an opinion other than the party line of the few is the right thing to do and will help lead it out of the hole it’s in?

    Andy
     
  17. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    About 2010. Not exactly a formal threat as such, but there were good reasons at the time for the S&DRT to believe that the WSR Plc Board at that time were not minded to renew the lease when it expired in 2020. Various 'reasons' including use as a PW depot etc. It was 'resolved' insofar as the threat faded and of course eventually the Board, under the Chairmanship of Ian Coleby, signed a new lease in 2018.
     
  18. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Andy,

    I don't recall we did any of those things.

    As I recall you failed to get the Community Engagement Managers job at competitive interview in front of an independent panel and then decided to leave us, perhaps understandably, to get on with the delivery. Once you had done this then of course we closed your e-mail address.
    Prior to that you provided invaluable help in winning the HPC bid for the railway for which I and others have publicly acknowledged our gratitude both orally and in print. You pointed the way towards other funding avenues and the person you recommended continues to work with us.
    You did a great service for the WSRA and you could do so again should you choose.
    You also did great service for the WSR. Your contribution to the 1940's weekend has also been publicly recognised more than once.

    I should however point out that the WSRA is a charity who's objects are to support the WSR, we are not a trade union in any way shape or form.
    Working volunteers join the WSRA because they seek to give a little extra in support of their hobby, others join simply to offer support, maybe because they had a great day out and fell in love with the WSR.

    You should note WSRA have also agreed with the WSR to run the recruitment of volunteers and some of the things you have mentioned over many months will be addressed by the joint leadership team that we have formed with the WSR plc to deliver this process. Some inevitably will not. There can only be one chairman of the board and one board of directors, anything else would be chaos and as I think I have said before the railway does not operate as a plebiscite.

    You are always welcome to call me as I hope you know.
     
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  19. Aberdare

    Aberdare New Member

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    Andy,

    Steve has a long history of supporting the WSR, it's company, and all it's supporting organisations. His web site wsr.org must rank as one of the best in the UK covering the history and current activities of a heritage railway and it is enjoyed by thousands of people across the world. All this is done impartially by one individual, well done Steve.

    I think it would be wonderful if the readers of Nat Pres would allow Steve to answer your question without someone making a fuss over his reply, but I feel the risk would be too great, however fairly he replied. Steve is a great guy with nothing but good intentions for the WSR and I would politely suggest that on this occasion he is allowed not to respond without being accused of ignoring you.

    Best wishes to all in these difficult times,

    Andy (Aberdare).
     
  20. Fish Plate

    Fish Plate New Member

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    Do you think that might be related to the fact that the WSRA still hasn't given any form of statement about the eviction? The WSRA is obviously a major player in the WSR and a substantial shareholder in the PLC, and therefore it shouldn't it have an opinion on the PLC's behaviour? Surely you have realised just how much anger the PLC's decision has caused, especially given the language that was used, and that is what is being reflected in this forum. Personally, I would be ashamed to be associated with the WSR right now if that is how its board feels it can describe one of the members of its "family" in public.

    Your (i.e. the Association's) continued silence on this matter can only be taken to mean that either (a) you agree with the decision taken by the PLC but are scared to say so because of the backlash from your members who support the SDRT, or (b) you disagree with the decision but are scared to say so because if the backlash from the PLC. I don't envy you the position in which you find yourself but that is why some people are reacting in the way they are.
     
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