If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    4,393
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Hi TRW

    I see you are new, welcome to Nat Pres. It may seem to be a bit rough and tumble here sometimes but that’s forums for you. As with all things take from it what you want. Just skip over the posts you don’t like and stick to the bits that interest you, that’s what many here do. It is all about WSR operations, some like to look at what’s happening on the line today and some of us are talking about the longer term operational viability, pick and choose to suit.

    The WSR is a bit of a game of two halves currently a 1,000 good people and about 5 bad ones at the top and I guess some of us close to the action care a bit too much sometimes, but please don’t let that put you off visiting a great railway. As #gwilialan put it a couple of posts above the trains are running, the stations look great and the grass is nicely cut thanks to the efforts of many great volunteers, if you only want to focus on the here and now, please do. As always this is a broad church of debate where all opinions can be aired freely and safely.

    If you want to see just whats happening on the line operationally now and news of what’s coming along in the next few months also try Steve Edge’s (#West Somerset Wizard) great site www.wsr.org.uk very highly recommended including the web cams.

    Best Andy
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  2. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    5,806
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Occupation:
    Ex a lot of things.
    Location:
    Near where the 3 Ridings meet
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer

    It is not up to the mods to create any threads.
    It's down to the individual.
    So if you want one start one.
    However how long it would remain as you wanted it is anyone's guess. 5 minutes would be my estimate.
     
  3. Paul Kibbey and Yorkshireman like this.
  4. Ruston906

    Ruston906 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    This includes all the catering staff and shop staff all the paid administration staff no just salary other costs pensions. The paid staff to maintain the number of coaches required to run a frequent services this must be heading toward 30 coaches. There is no easy solution just running smaller locos is not going to make enough saving to cover the infrastructure works required.
     
  5. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not to mention, 'would anyone post anything in it'. Horses, water, etc.

    Noel
     
  6. The_Rail_WAy

    The_Rail_WAy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2019
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    Thanks for that, well I visited the WSR twice last year as my family moved to the area - the second time I took family who were well impressed and I bought them £40 of vouchers for Christmas of which they were delighted so we all plan to go again early this summer.

    It is fantastic line, great locos, polite, friendly, helpful staff, fantastic scenery and points of interest along the way. I was particularly impressed by the kind gentleman (stationmaster) at Watchet who showed me around the site and gave me a tour even though I had no spare change to make a donation.

    The best heritage railway I have visited so far. I can't speak highly enough of it.
     
  7. tracker

    tracker Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    874
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired IT manager
    Location:
    Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I work on the principle that if I have nothing worthwhile to say, I say nothing. If only dozens of others would follow suit!
    Robin L.
     
  8. tracker

    tracker Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    874
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired IT manager
    Location:
    Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Seconded... I have travelled to the galas twice or more times a year, and on other special occasions (2nd Jan GWR DMU to mark an anniversary for example). I have visited quite a number of others such as the Bluebell, Swanage, G&WR, SVR etc... but WSR is my favourite... by a good margin.
    Robin L.
     
  9. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,247
    Likes Received:
    17,947
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I liked it so much, I bought the view...

    55805678-C11E-4D58-B7B6-6399B43E760F.jpeg

    Robin
     
  10. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    1,590
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thirded (can you 'third' something?)The WSR is by far my favourite railway, and it's not the closest to me by quite a margin. I've attended every spring gala and almost every autumn gala since 2002, and usually make at least one other visit a year and enjoyed every one of them. Forget the politics, it's the time, enthusiasm, friendliness and hard work put in by the volunteers and paid staff that make the railway so great.

    Some my say that as a shareholder and WSRA member since the time the railway only went to Blue Anchor that I might be ever so slightly biased :rolleyes: but the WSR is a 300+ mile round trip by car and I wouldn't do that two or three times a year if I didn't think the railway was worth the effort.
     
    Bluenosejohn, 1472, Geoff May and 3 others like this.
  11. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am not entirely sure what you are saying, but if you are seeking to establish the cost of running a train, or conversely the contribution a train needs to make, I would exclude, from the total costs (which are normally ascertainable from the published accounts), the costs of what I call "self-financing" activities e.g. catering, shop, Peppa Pigs etc (some of which may be apparent from the accounts). Once you strip these out, you get to a (IMHO) better view of the cost of running the railway, which you can then divide by the number of trains in the year - the last is not usually published for some reason, so you have to do an estimate, as Tom did. Which will probably come to between £2,000-4,000 per train. Now, that may or may not be a useful figure, e.g. if there is under investment in fixed assets (reflected in an artificially low depreciation charge), it is not going to tell the full picture. Equally using this to cost a marginal additional train is requires some care as you are into assumptions about whether this is hauled by a loco already operational/in steam, pulling a set of coaches ready and waiting to go etc.
     
    Bluenosejohn and Jamessquared like this.
  12. Something to add to your must-do list this summer - a trip out to see the wonderful station gardens on the West Somerset Railway. See 'em all by train or just visit one by one at your leisure. Visit the Station Gardens webpage. And did you know Taunton Station gardens are tended by the WSR folks?

    [​IMG]

    Steve
     
    Aberdare likes this.
  13. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,944
    Likes Received:
    6,303
    The WSR is a fantastically enjoyable railway to visit - this is not the problem. Its problems are to a greater or lesser degree shared by most other heritage railways. The WSR has two unique characteristics that make its troubles more openly known about, and perhaps more extreme right now. First, it is the longest. Second, it has suffered more than its share of animosity between organisations within the "family".

    Whilst I agree with much of what others have said I would observe the following:
    1. The business model is not that robust (none of us have this luxury). I think it is clear that our lines cannot in general earn from visitor revenue sufficient to cover all operating and investment costs. Fundraising is necessary, and not many railways are all that good at this AND the traditional pool of benefactors is undoubtedly starting to shrink. We need to develop other streams of funding.
    2. For the WSR specifically the requirement to spend £400k / pa (or whatever the exact number will be) on infrastructure alone over the next ten years equates very roughly to £1000 per engine day. That's in addition to the other costs of operating the train of course. To ensure the kind of facilities that Tom and I would both agree are required means that every train would need to earn another £1000 for non infrastructure investment (minimum I would suggest). To equate this to fares a back of fag packet calculation suggests that prices need to at least double whilst volume of visitors stays the same if the railway were to be able to "pay its way" with donations being limited to funding "nice to haves" .... most unlikely of course.

    I think what will safeguard any heritage railway over the coming years is:
    - Strong focus on the customers making happy volunteers, benefactors, general public and enthusiasts (yes in that order) . I know that enthusiasts are often benefactors and vice versa, but we need to ensure that the benefactor part of their character is served first and best, and that the desire to add more equipment or infrastructure that is not 100% useful to the objectives of the railway is resisted.
    - Strategies that protect physical equipment and reduce labour requirements.
    - A collections policy. What does the railway need in order to "tell the story" it wants to? What will it acquire? What will it DISPOSE?
    - Robust management of the operation of trains. This needs to be as independent as possible from the engineering and commercial parts of the business in order to focus on the development and monitoring of staff competence. It also needs to be free of pressure to run trains or provide a particular capacity on those trains, if the equipment and people are not available. (See South Devon experience among others).
    - Clear management structure (volunteers, paid and contractor) that is given clear scope and responsibility and is empowered to make decisions within individual's scope without constant interference, and is itself managed well by effective senior managers and the board. This will require target setting and strategy development and oversight on a scale and depth not often (if ever) seen on heritage railways.
    - Tight financial controls with good forecasting.
     
  14. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,164
    Andy Norman's several recent posts present a plausible account of some recent events as perceived from his side and a convincing argument for a more inclusive culture in order to attract potential grant givers. It would be good to see more from the establishment in defence of the present strategy than mere assertions that he is wrong. A declaration that all must toe the line or go is OK if the line is indisputably the right one, but not if the line might possibly be the wrong one.
     
  15. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    5,806
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Occupation:
    Ex a lot of things.
    Location:
    Near where the 3 Ridings meet
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Has it become compulsory to have a high word count on here?
    Some of the recent posts have been on the lengthy side and are at risk of being skipped over.
     
  16. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    4,393
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thank you, I agree and I would welcome the debate, in fact I have had it with all inside with all three Boards and all other partners such as the DEPG, S&DRT etc. all placed their support to this direction in writing and the WSRA & PLC set the direction I took. I gained more than one sign off by both the WSRA & PLC Boards, so all did agree (and perhaps still do agree) that the grant funding way was correct, of that there is no doubt. Then suddenly when the new Chairman came along he and 4 people who once agreed then didn’t. So there was a moment in time for the change in direction which complicates the matter somewhat.

    But to pick up on your point, anybody should be happy to debate any case with facts as you rightly say. Most Volunteers on the WSR involved at the top have two jobs, one working as a volunteer and one managing. I held a role as a member of the footplate crew and a role as Project Manager for both Boards in a number of areas.

    Let’s say for the sake of argument I’m wrong here in all I say and the new Chairman is right in all regards. If he decided I should go then so be it, it is after all the right of an elected Board to do that. But my footplate volunteering as well, suspended with no notification or recourse or debate? Is that inclusive culture or a dictatorship (a word that was used to me yesterday by a current senior WSR person who doesn’t want to be named).

    Perhaps we can debate: Is removing me from my footplate role as a direct result of my opinions in another role acceptable, as my footplate role would not impact on the direction the management wished to take? Especially as that removal was as a result of me raising a Complaint for Bullying (this action as well as one other was taken by 2 people on the PLC Board breaks both WSR HR Policy & UK Legislation and is defined under WSR HR Policy as gross-misconduct), is that people being accountable ?

    As I have mentioned previously my compliant in this has been registered, logged and acknowledged and indeed the Vice-Chair of the PLC was allocated my case in January to investigate, but nothing since. Therefore under the WSR Whistleblowing Policy and UK legislation (Public Disclosures Act) I have had no other option than to bring it into the public domain as the Disclosures Act says I’m obliged to do.

    Judging by the very high number of private messages I’ve received in the last few days from others close to the WSR and conversations I’ve had, many others feel as I do, but most are under direct and indirect threat if they speak out, they have more to lose than me in their hobbies and jobs so are keeping their heads down. Others have also been removed as well as me. So back to the point of culture is this good or bad, sustainable or unsustainable, again lets debate it.

    Sorry to highjack your post, but I agree that some good safe open and honest debate is needed and it would be good for people to challenge me if they think I’m wrong (which I welcome). Let’s also challenge a culture that removes a hobby of a volunteer if they disagree and ask the question: Will that result in a growing or contracting WSR? The WSR has lost from one funder this year alone £250,000 minimum (I was aiming for £500k) for infrastructure work because it had to be declared to them that I had been removed and there was a bullying compliant (happy to say who if anybody asks, they can write to the Board concerned if they think I’m mistaken).

    Therefore putting my own feelings aside is this going to make the WSR’s current woes better or worse ?

    Sorry another long word count, #Ploughman is right, however I can’t throw in one liners on this, it needs facts, it’s too important.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  17. Steven Harris

    Steven Harris New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    80
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    This, and the many other posts he makes, are very reminiscent of the Dagenham machinists strikeof 1968. The fact that the PLC are breaking thir own rules as well as national legislation can only do more damage to the PLC, something which it cannot suffer. After all it damaged Ford.
     
  18. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,247
    Likes Received:
    17,947
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    No :)
     
    2392, jnc and Forestpines like this.
  19. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,486
    Likes Received:
    5,045
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Comfy chair occupant!
    Location:
    No moaners please!
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The damage is NOT caused by the whistleblowers but by those who made the whistle blowing necessary. What the Romans referred to as not shooting the messenger!
     
  20. thequantocks

    thequantocks Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    186
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Plymouth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If amy company wishes to dispense with a volunteers services surely nothing should stop them. It must be up to them who they want operating thier trains, they are the managers. Why have you fallen out the the WSRA if you did so much for them? Threre is more to this than meets the eye.
     
    6960 Raveningham Hall likes this.

Share This Page