If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Sandringham New Build(s)

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by D6332found, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,808
    Likes Received:
    946
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    82045 was never down at the SDR. It was one of the members down there that had the original idea. He made a number of small components, prior to the 82045 team at the SVR taking the actual build on.
     
    Gav106 likes this.
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,103
    Likes Received:
    57,433
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I don't know the precise legal relationship between 82045 and the SVR, but I suspect Beachy Head is somewhat unusual in that the project is directly run by the railway in our governance structure, with its construction being a specific objective of our Long Term Plan and the ownership when complete being by the railway rather than an independent group. Credibility really derives from the people driving the project, but the fact that the group is part of the railway, rather than an independent group, has I am sure made things like negotiating for space to construct the workshop simpler.

    That said (and moving away from strictly new builds to look more generally at loco overhauls), there are other groups (such as the Maunsell Locomotive Society, Camelot Society, Bulleid Society) that are nominally independent but have very tight and mutually beneficial relationships with the railway, with all the benefits that that confers.

    Tom
     
  3. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The B17 is being constructed at Llangollen, so is in a well regarded railway engineering workshop....but must be paying for a significant portion of the work being done. They are looking at getting more engineering done in the East of England. I think their fundraising is accelerating well.
    The earlier point about aging donors is also valid....but bequests upon death are increasingly common.....and I believe a new generation of steam enthusiasts are coming through with no knowledge of BR steam.
     
    240P15 likes this.
  4. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1,225
    Remember also that it is not enough simply to gain credibility; it must also be maintained. About 15 years ago many people would have seen the Clan project as the best-established new build scheme after Tornado. Since then, they have had all kinds of problems (e.g. having to replace the frames) and they have lost ground to other schemes e.g. the Patriot. I think it is quite telling that Gav106 didn't include it on his list of credible schemes.
     
  5. D6332found

    D6332found Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    179
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dinting
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Many commentators on here may be Bipartisan on new builds, each favouring LMS/BR/LNER/GWR/others. Whatever troubles the CLan had, the future has dusted off its troubles, and grinds along slowly. Clearly it had a huge set back, but it seems the onward team are doing very well.
    As to the Sandringhams, every penny to the ManUtd is slowing down us seeing a wonderful B17 again. The main issue here is they weren't as capable as the GCR Robinson 4-6-0s/Holdens they were replacing. Like the U1 Garratt, magnificent but slightly criticized, there is no line big enough for that newbuild!
     
    Hicks19862 likes this.
  6. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    east sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    that is not so
    they had a reserve on the Hook Continental the B12s never had , and their early days on the GC produced some sparkling performances for what was nominally a class 4 loco..
    the Jubilees in their early days showed little advantage over a B17
     
    69530 likes this.
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    .
    Good point. The historic damage (as, due to the professional and energetic approach of the current team, that all it now is) done to the 6MT's credibility, during the initial phase, evidently still casts it's baleful shadow in the minds of many. The fact that the project's website's "news" section plays second fiddle to Facebook updates - which is kept updated - is a niggle (and one common to many websites!*). Recent progress has been impressive and the odds now have to be on a lot of speculation concerning the loco's eventual performance. Bring it on!!!

    See for yourselves ..... https://m.facebook.com/theclanproject/

    Sod's Law being what it is, as I write this, the main 'Clan' project website seems to have taken the day off!

    *Congratulations to the Swindon & Cricklade on sorting their website out, btw .... much better! :)
    'Av a butchers ..... https://swindon-cricklade-railway.org
     
    Gav106 and gwalkeriow like this.
  8. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Find that Puzzling as the website is more upto date than the 'Official' facebook page ( There is also an Unofficial 'Clan Fans' facebook page). Perhaps you are still hooked upto the old website. Try the link on the Facebook page.
    The Clan project have recently had a change of luck.
    The first meeting i went to was a ' do we really want to Carry on ?' meeting.
    When the frames were discovered to be unusable and had to be replaced that question arose again.
    When Rileys had to move again the future looked cloudy ...
    But the Clan now has a fantastic and secure base, contacts at the cutting edge of modern engineering and half a dozen capable engineers on its books. It is well managed financially and has a some very personable front men. The only thing lacking is that thing that most new builds dont have either, but the A1/P2/ trust do which is a top drawer marketing/ publicity/ fundraising person to get the money in...
     
  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    PS. I like the idea of having a B17 in the Stable (perhaps not two....) though only the latest incarnation of it plus the modern design mitigations makes any sense to me.
    Hope the SoS group are not daft enough to say 'never' to the streamlined version, even if its a bolt on, seperately funded not thinking about it until later ' option' it has a special appeal.....
     
    240P15 likes this.
  10. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Here are another two pictures from the B17 Society 80th Anniversary leaflet 313216-122718c.jpg 093416-122718 d.jpg
     
    Dan Hill and 240P15 like this.
  11. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    This is the leaflet cover so the SoS group are well aware of the B17/5.... 264116-122718 e.jpg
     
    Kinghambranch, Dan Hill and 240P15 like this.
  12. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,069
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    I know trains were somewhat noiser in the days of jointed rail, but "Dinning at all seats"?
     
  13. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    From various sources it has been said that the streamlined casing on the B17 was literally just a casing over the "regular" B17, however, looking at those photographs, they must have also altered the top front of the smokebox and chimney to get that sloping A4 style front. So we may need a second smokebox!
     
  14. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Nah, just build it with a detachable ' wedge '. !
     
  15. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    east sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    I find the harsh sound of CWW rail on concrete sleepers far worse than jointed track on timber
     
    ross likes this.
  16. Bugler_John

    Bugler_John New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ilford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    No, the Spirit of Sandringham group are not daft enough to rule a streamlined version out. Indeed, more publication of this version is evident in various sections of their website recently. And in 2017 they even promoted the East Anglian streamlined train, as pointed out elsewhere in this forum. But to put on a streamlined casing, you first have to have an 'ordinary' B17. The streamlining was a bolt on, and for those with a sharp eye to detail who say the smokebox needs to be modified when looking at the distance from the chimney to the buffer beam, in actual fact it doesn't - my understanding was that the bufferbeam was extended with another bolt-on to get the streamlined shape in, so in fact a B17/5 was longer than the unstreamlined B17s.
     
    240P15 likes this.
  17. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,569
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The give-away there would be the distance from buffer to bogie wheel. I wonder if there are any comparable side on shots?
     
  18. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Location:
    Nantwich, Cheshire
  19. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Location:
    Nantwich, Cheshire
    To me that's a different smokebox, different cab, different tender. Removal and replacement side valencing. All possible but expensive to do and their priorities seem to be fundraising for the casting of the wheels. Visit https://bseventeensteamloco.charitycheckout.co.uk/#!/ To donate
     
    class8mikado and Sheff like this.
  20. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    761
    Location:
    Devon
    It's quite clear that the Great Western was the only company to produce a magnificent streamlined express loco by just bolting bits on.
     

Share This Page