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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Strictly factual. Today’s Railway Herald states that the ORR refused to comment. I wonder what the West Somerset Free Press will say on Friday. Last week the lead story was about the open meeting held by the MLRG.
     
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  2. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    It is not the closure per se that is problematic, it is that it was felt necessary to include the dates of the Spring Gala in the closure. It could be seen as a knee jerk reaction rather than a well considered one. A great pity.
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I do find it curious that less than a year ago when some of us "outsiders" expressed concern that the recent problems of the WSR might not all be down to WSRA troubles we were shouted down and told that all was rosy, even when the board was playing musical chairs. Ho hum... :rolleyes:

    That hardly sounds like a knee-jerk reaction, more like the severity of the situation is appreciated enough to realise such tough decisions must be taken. Especially if relying on volunteers, a decent length close season is essential to keep on top of maintenance, and do some reasonably major relays. As enthusiasts we might be disappointed that the steam gala happens to be included in those dates, but as far as operations and maintenance is concerned, it's just another weekend's operating cancelled so they can get on with the essentials.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  4. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    Perhaps those that were so keen to approach the ORR should have thought a bit more about the consequences. If the PLC board considers that the remedial actions will mean the cancellation of the gala then so be it. Have you stopped to consider the possibility that the works might take even longer than first envisaged? After all, it is not unknown for heritage railways to have a over-optimistic view when programming works.
     
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  5. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    I find that comment concerning. Are you suggesting that those with unaddressed but genuine concerns should nevertheless have done nothing to 'protect' an event they enjoy?

    Planning events such as the two cancelled takes a lot of time - time which may well need to be expended elsewhere in this case - we don't actually know because we don't know how much of what the WSRplc Board believes requires a 3 month hiatus in operations is physical, engineering work and how much is 'systems' work. Both have their own planning challenges and reasons why they can't be completed 'overnight'. Not wishing to be involved in organising major events in the midst of it all is understandable, though clearly regrettable.

    Steven
     
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  6. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    From those who wrote, myself included, thought long and hard about the possible consequenses. Not doing so seemed, and still seems, the lesser of two evils. Your reasoning is., I am afraid, a classic case of post hoc ergo propter hoc.Te caause was poor managemewnt not that the ORR was made aware of it.
     
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  7. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    Well don't moan about the cancellation of the gala being a kneejerk reaction then..!!
     
  8. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    I was making the point that the original poster was trying to 'have his cake and eat it'. Having applauded the decision to approach the ORR, it then seemed strange, to me, to moan about an unintended consequence of this action.

    Andy
     
  9. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Telling the ORR was not the cause of the gala cancellation. . Mismangement that made that desireable was the cause. Post hoc ergo propter hoc!
     
  10. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    That doesn't make cancelling it a knee jerk reaction though. Belated possibly, but in these particular circumstances the railway now finds itself in regardless of passed missed opportunities sensible surely?
     
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  11. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    Oh dear, here we go again, tit for tat.
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Lots to ponder here. A slightly longer break to allow repairs to catch up is not inherently a bad thing; for infrastructure in particular it allows work to be planned more efficiently. (I'd note in passing that ten years or so ago on the Bluebell, we ran 52 weekends per year; now we run about 10 weekends fewer, with a four week period in November and 6 weeks in the new year where infrastructure get an unobstructed period in which they can take an extended possession of where they wish to work. I doubt many of us on the operating side would be clamouring to get those weekends back now for a full line service, though we do continue to run footplate tasters, restricted to station limits, to keep some cash flow). The loss of the spring gala - others have questioned the economics, and I think for one year it's not necessarily disastrous, particularly if it allows the gala planning team some time to reflect on what they consider constitutes "value" in a crowded market for steam galas. If the product takes a breather for a year but comes back refreshed, so much the better. Again on the Bluebell, "Giants of Steam" took a couple of year's hiatus, but has been very successful on its return; and I believe the Severn Valley Autumn Gala also took a one year break, albeit to make way for Flying Scotsman.

    What I think would be more concern would be if the infrastructure team are having to take on more work at short notice than they had initially programmed. Infrastructure work is cash-hungry, and also to a degree relies on having supplies of material arranged in advance. Other lines have run appeals to pay for infrastructure renewal (*), but such appeals don't come out of nowhere, and to a certain extent, rely on development of a culture amongst the railway's supporters: fostering a notion of "it's 'our' railway so 'we' have to dig deep to support that which we love". That takes time. So my worry would not be the closure per se, but - given the short notice - the degree to which that time can be capitalised on by making sure there is sufficient finance available for the work required.

    A propos the debate about openness or otherwise and the degree to which stakeholders should be kept informed: I tend to consider that it is better to be honest, particularly with those most likely to support the railway, i.e. WSRA members and PLC shareholders. The alternative is that they can have a false sense of security, at which point an appeal to for funds coming out of the blue ends up looking somewhat bewildering and is less likely to be successful. The most successful railway appeals have been where there is a sense of shared and collective purpose across the whole railway about the need and priority for the appeal.

    (*) Note the word - renewal is not the same as supporting the company's day-to-day operating cost, and if you cross the threshold that a major rebuild of a locomotive, perhaps including significant boiler and other repairs of life-expired components is a suitable recipient of charitable fundraising, then it is not much of a leap to assume that renewal of life-expired infrastructure could be similarly supported within the terms of a charity's remit.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I admire those who had probably with a heavy heart were so concerned that they felt necessary to go to the ORR

    the preservation movement needs to make sure its house is in order . to have the write communication lines with its staff and volunteers and manage and address these properly

    They have become mini train operating companies with the premier lines running seven days a week services for a good proportion of the year . As a normal passenger you would expect standards to be consistent
     
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  14. nick813

    nick813 Well-Known Member Loco Owner

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    Were the others mainly WSRA members/trustees?
     
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  15. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps that is not really a fair question to ask. If others who wrote wish to identify themselves then so be it but let's not put someone who has had the courage to stand up and be counted in a position where they are being asked to (possibly) break some confidences.
     
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  16. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    What relevance is this question, other than to start a witch hunt.

    Surely your question should be what could possibly be so serious as to prompt such action, rather than seemingly seeking to explain it away as being part of on-going West Somerset Railway politics. One must wonder if a tendency to do so may well be one of the reasons that matters have come to this.

    I think you can rest assured that the concerns raised must have been such and sufficient for the ORR share then sufficiently to take action and see that this was not a case of internal disputes attempting to drag them in - indeed, why would a 3 month hiatus be needed if the complaints to ORR were groundless?

    Unless those involved in the West Somerset can bury ancient hatches once and for all (and not in each other!), the present situation will be a lot more difficult to address and the future of the Railway itself at greater risk!

    Steven
     
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Just as an aside, it cannot be lost to the ORR that there are those in the locality who would like to run trains to Taunton and also run through trains from the network to Minehead. Forget how sensible that all is, or isn't. Think about why the ORR might be interested in a set up where even an outside possibility existed of that happening, irrespective of the absence of any connection between the two groups.

    It's all pretty logical really, obvious even.
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Don’t think I agree with that. The grounds on which the ORR investigate a minor railway are set out on their website and are quite limited: those reasons don't normally include "investigating an entirely hypothetical situation in which an unconnected third party wishes to completely change the operating model".

    Tom
     
  19. baldbof

    baldbof Well-Known Member Friend

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    .....and those who carry a grudge against the railway.
     
  20. alts1985

    alts1985 Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh that's my non-refundable hotel booked for next year's gala down the drain...
     

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