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NRM York Regeneration

Discussion in 'National Railway Museum' started by Dan Hamblin, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think that might be a bit scary for most 4-year olds, even me at the time! :eek:
     
  2. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Silly boy, i meant now, not when you were 4, ;)
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ah right, yes please! :)
     
  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    on a serious note though, at the times when 60103 is being prepared, or is in steam as long as its controlled, is there any reason why as an add on fee that the NRM could not market drive scotsman days ? with in the limit of the yard if they need to raise funding etc, i can't think of a better way .
     
  5. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    The thing I dislike about the lack of any NRM Engineering today (compared with the past) is that it means that iconic Engines like Hardwick, MR Compound, Stirling 8 footer, Johnson Spinner, Mallard etc will never run again. I am too young to have seen them running in the early 80s as I was only a child then and I will never get the chance now.

    Same with some of the historic coaches. In fact I noticed that outside the Station hall, the tracks were concreted in (with no grooves for the wheel flanges), so clearly they don't intend that stuff in there will ever even be shunted out at any point.

    That was one of the good things about the NRM. Every so often they restored something to working condition so we could all see it actually 'run'
     
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  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I do think that the lack of vision for what NRM is amounts to a failure of management. As one of the problems is that you can't appeal on one site to every strand of visitor then the obvious solution is to take advantage of the fact that NRM has multiple sites and make one site for the mainstream, casual visitor who might want to look at a big shiny engine, do something interactive, have a cup of tea, burn some cash in the gift shop and go home, then that is fine. The obvious solution to those who think the site is selling out is to gear Shildon etc to the more informed/hardcore visitor.

    Perhaps the only railways that do think about their connection to the wider landscape, economy and society are those which are much more connected to a specific industry (or are in industrial areas). Preserved railways in the countryside tend to be much more about presenting a rural idyll, nice views and wasn't the past great.
     
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  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    After the Flying Scotsman experience, I suggest that the NRM are rightly very cautious about what projects they take on - especially with such irreplaceable treasures as those you list. As for the carriages, just about all of them (and the locomotives attached to them) were in different locations to those I remember from my last visit, so I'd be surprised if they were as immobile as you suggest.

    In my comments about the NRM on Saturday, I should have observed that work was underway on Sir Nigel Gresley. Heresy alert - it was not that interesting to this layman to watch, and I'm not sure that a running commentary would have helped either me or those doing the work.
     
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  8. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    nail hit on head, whilst the museum has to meet its costs, it didnt help that the museum gave the lead post to a person on secondment from the treasury , a number cruncher, and that was when the rot set in, the focus was on reducing costs and increasing visitor numbers, but at the same time the museum becoming part of the greater Science museum group meant it lost some of its independence, what it needed was a person with knowledge and drive to ensure the museum was not overlooked because the Science museum will always come first, if you want a view of what happens to the rest of the collection, away from the hallowed halls of Kensington, look at the condition of items held in store at the reserve collection , none of it is kept in any order that enables any of it to be shown working, its just stored last open day i went to much of the stuff looked neglected . and already as i understand some of the national collection are showing signs of a lack of funding, or funding being spent on other things, whilst other areas are ignored.
     
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  9. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    If anyone is sufficiently interested a rummage around the Science Museum Group website will find the policy papers etc that describe the "vision" for the NRM. A bit more digging and it becomes obvious that nobody involved with the management will have any memories of BR in steam days. Unsurprisingly they are too young. Another, to me worrying development is that few of the managers appear to be engineers but are curators and often from an arts background. Whether you are concerned about this depends, of course, on your point of view.

    https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/
     
  10. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Why should they remember BR in steam days? Does the fact that none remember the Grouping undermine the validity of their work relating to that era?

    As for their academic backgrounds, I am less concerned about their specific backgrounds than that they are sufficiently aware of their subject matter to do all aspects of it justice - not just the mechanical engineering.
     
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  11. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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  12. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me sir, don`t get me wrong, but how can you be so sure that we never will see for instance "Mallard" running again?
     
  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I think the biggest problem is the attitude to conveying knowledge and what is of interest to people.

    A couple of years ago I was involved with a project to convert research into radio documentaries. A number of us had to go and present our research and then some producers selected the ones they liked. What was interesting from my point of view was that it was not the quality of the research, nor the person presenting it but rather whether the producers liked it.

    Even beyond that, one of the people who was selected, having heard his pitch, when I heard the final programme, his ideas had been butchered beyond all recognition by the producers into what they wanted and what met their agenda rather than being anywhere near his original vision.

    There could be some really good people at NRM who may have really interesting ideas about what to present, how to present it, different ideas about how to treat historical artifacts etc, but if management in the end just want 'lowest common denominator' or 'things that will pull in punters' and don't care about things that are hard, complex or less mainstream then sadly there is not much hope.
     
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  14. ssk2400

    ssk2400 New Member

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    Who remembers flying Scotsman at steamtown in the 70s .50p footplate rides down to crag bank and if you were lucky you could blow the whistle
    They were visits that stayed with you
     
  15. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    The debacle over Flying Scotsman is a symptom of the decline in the NRMs Engineering abilities. In fact it is not just a decline it has completely disappeared and now they are totally reliant on outside contractors to both restore and run Flying Scotsman. If Scotsman has been done by the museum say in the early 1980s I have no doubt the museum would then have had the abilities to do it themselves with just a few bits contracted out. I expect Scotsman will now have a period of running until it needs major work again and then be put back in the museum and that will be the end.
    In future then any NRM owned locos will only be restored if an external organisation does it all and pays for it.

    Another comment from earlier that I agree with. My guess is that many of the NRMs staff are now arty farty types who don't know the first thing about restoring anything and have no practical experience using tools etc at all. When I have checked their vacancies from time to time, the salaries being offered are low and are mostly for admin type positions.
     
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  16. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    But is restoration even the job of the NRM given the number of railways doing exactly the same thing? Is the point of the national collection to conserve objects maintaining their historical integrity or to restore them and ultimately Trigger's Broom them?

    You might denigrate 'arty farty' types but I don't see how expertise on restoring objects gives anyone better skills to run a museum? Afterall, someone who is good at restoring things may have nothing of value to add to any attempt to tell the social, economic or political story of railways, in which case you'd end up with another narrow technical museum of which we already have plenty. Maybe a narrow technical museum is what you think the NRM should be, I'd like something that reflects a broader understanding of railways.

    The best museums I've been to have combined restoration, conservation and telling different stories from different perspectives and being able to speak to everyone from kids, to casual visitors to hardcore amateurs to professionals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  17. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I miss those days! Even more rewarding as a volunteer, seeing families 'up close and personal' with engines in steam.
     
  18. Kingscross

    Kingscross Member

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    For well-interpreted but static display of rail vehicles the NRM would be wise to follow the lead of France's Cite du Train museum in Mulhouse. If you haven't been, Google it!
     
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  19. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I think this is a reasonable statement although the academic research activities should be added. The problem is that the NRM is very far from doing this and on its present development trajectory the distance is increasing.
     
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  20. Shaggy

    Shaggy Part of the furniture

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    When reading your post @martin1656 "Cadbury World" immediately sprung to mind. I visited Bourneville last year and the way they present their product is very informative with the use of a walk through the old factory site. Videos using heads of the entrepreneurs talking while seeing what is going on. This leads effortlessly from the cocoa bean right through to the Creme Egg! They have historical artefacts with comprehensive explanations. Hands on parts where you can make your own chocolate. These could easily be replicated to a railway related theme. Super-impose John Cadbury with Richard Trevithick talking through the inception of "Pen-y-Darren" in one video room and IKB talking through the GW mainline, Broad Gauge and Paddington Station in another etc... etc... The hands on could be a signalling or driving simulator. Not too sure what they can make to take away but hands on is definitely achievable. The workshop could be included to show a real works set up, heavy engineering taking place and the various parts required to make up a locomotive. Ok, this will cost money and take up quite a bit of space but would transform the NRM into a museum with a core aim to tell the history, relevance and future of railways and provide the educational aid it desires that could lead everyone into the exhibits after they have been enriched with some knowledge of what they are, why they are relevant and how diverse yet practical and glorious they are.
     
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