Best British Locomotive

Absolutely. That's why I offered my own.

 

Ahem...!

 

Stanier didn't like the first mogul with the GWR safety valve cover and had it removed...

 

The 73/9 is a pretty much new machine though, I think it's only the bogies, under frame and body shell that are original, but I would agree the EE type 1 and 3 are possibly the best loco's that this country has produced. Although honourable mentions must go to the Brush Type 2, the class 73 and whisper it quietly the Brush type 4.

 

A fair point there Martin but I'd argue that by sticking a 12svt power unit in them has gone some way to ensuring the longivity of some of them. Is it any worse than say Crewe works having to replace the frames on Black 5's? When you think it was 60 years this month that the 1st examples entered traffic, the railways have had there money's worth from them.

 

Yes, I think the 47 deserves a mention too. Versatile, useful on all kinds of traffic and have lasted a long time.

 

Like you Bill, I hope my post was read in the spirit I'd intended it to convey.

In all honesty, I'd rate the products of GJC's extensive comparative testing as the single most significant leap forward this side of Stephenson. Not being a GW afficionado it pains me to say this, but Churchward was also the only 20th century British CME I'd class as a true "great". Both his successors at Swindon, although responsible for some very fine designs, rather rode on Churchward's coat-tails. Indeed, by the end of his tenure, some may assert Collett did so from a seated position, rather crushing his laurels in the process!

Although (IMO) Stanier took Churchward's work to 'the next level', his work owed much to his Swindon grounding, albeit with a more open-minded approach than was evidently possible at Swindon. This is going to upset those of a more parochial disposition, but by Gresley's and moreso by Stanier's time, the mantle of greatness had passed from these shores to M. André Chapelon ..... never to return! The current holder, in my books, remains the late Ing.L.D.Porta

 

yes so was mine !
the best features of the GWR were of course carried forward into BR practices... decent bearings, coupling rods, green paint.

 

Yes, I would go along with Churchward's work being the start point of the development of 20th Century locomotives. He broke new ground with 4-6-0 types as most other attempts at around this period were attempts to enlarge 4-4-0s, which usually didn't work, see Drummonds on the South Western, and several Caledonian/GC duds.

I think the GW got such a quantum leap forward that they never then advanced at all, and Collett's locos were just slight modifications of the existing Churchward ones. It was left to the LMS, under Stanier, to develop the designs further and make them into.....the best British locomotives!!

 

.... even when carried through via Crewe, courtesy of a certain Swindon escapee!! While I'm about it, I always thought it to H.G.Ivatt's eternal credit he wasn't noticably constrained (the third and politest verb I tried!) by his pre-Stanier experiences within the Fowler era LMS and it's constituents!

 

I'd agree with that summary. These discussions often seem to miss the historical context. A great example is superheating: 'Swindon engines are worse than others because of their low-temperature superheaters, nothing more than steam-dryers'. Well that's true if you take a snapshot any time from the 1930s onwards, but in 1910 the Swindon approach to superheating was one of the elements that made Churchward's designs so successful.

Success often leads to complacency, and GW locomotive design in the 20th century is a prime example. Churchward's successors didn't 'push the envelope' like Stanier or Gresley, mainly because his work meant they could play it safe. I think Churchward was the greatest of his era, and the GWR is my favourite company, but love doesn't have to be blind (as post #117 shows). I certainly don't want to be accused of being a 'fan-boy'. Heaven forbid!

(I also agree regarding Chapelon. With Porta, I appreciate his advances, but feel that steam was obsolete technology by his time. Chapelon was the final chapter, Porta an epilogue.)

 

Better not point out the amount of engines the HST has used then...

 

For sheer, unfailing reliability and dependability I nominate......The Manchester - Bury class 504 electric units!!!

(gets coat....)

 

Swansong???? They are still pulling our passenger trains round here today! (and failing on a very regular basis!)

 

A bit more than 2-3 years, it was 1965 when the change started. Saw plenty of Mirrlees engines dumped at the back of Doncaster works. Rumour had it that they were sold to Norway to be fitted in trawlers.