Current and Proposed New-Builds

We know Paul. Everyone should build new 2MTs and nothing else blah blah blah.

If you're not careful your big chufferitis will be to you what Edward Thompson is to me...!

 

Don't agree RE league tables but totally agree the Austerity tank and black five should be at the bottom of the list - 18 black fives preserved, do we really need another one?

 

Never been to Tanfield or Foxfield, then?

 

You need to read again some of the other comments on this thread but properly this time. Especially Nos. 464 and 468.

PH

 

I have been to most preserved lines at least once, but that is two I haven't been to, but that is mostly down to the distance to get there. The Foxfield is one I plan to go to at some stage and their growing North Staffordshire vintage train is something I would like to see.

The point is that is if you have two railways a similar distance away:-

Railway A has say an LMS Jubilee and a GWR Pannier running this weekend

Railway B has been efficient and has a J94 and a few tatty Mark 1s running to save money.

Okay Railway A it is then ! I would probably go there 5 times as often as Railway B, unless B can offer some thing else of interest, nice stations, vintage train etc

Think of it as a car, a ford focus is efficient, but a Jag E type or XK120 is what I want to see.

 

I have read the thread Paul. I actually defended the Austerity tank (see above). Someone denigrating the Austerity tank design's capabilities is not automatically your big chufferitis. That's just someone who is misinformed about the locomotives' tractive effort and overall ability.

In any event, we have done this cyclical debate to death on a number of threads. Can we just agree to disagree and move on?

You could be right for a number of railways, I could be right for others - in any event, railway preservation has to play the hands its dealt and I am sure you wouldn't be in favour of melting down historic and big locomotives to be turned into 2MTs...surely...!

 

Strangely i think he would, be in favour of melting down anything larger than an Ivatt 2, and doing a henry ford on the movement, Any engine you want, as long as its an ivatt 2mt, any colour you like as long as its black but i wonder, if someone at his favorite railway were to start cutting metal on a new build Beyer Peacock 2-4-0T would he welcome it, or decry it?

 

Martin, you just don't understand I am afraid. Far from wanting to standardise everything I feel tourist railways are just too samey, at least where rolling stock is concerned. They are also not particularly good at containing costs which is where I am coming from. An IOW 2-4-0T the size of Bonchurch would be fine but they had the reputation for frame fractures which is why something a bit more modern in design is desirable.

Quite a number of present day tourist railways run over routes with geological difficulties which, in the day resulted in quite severe axleload restrictions being imposed. These problems did not suddenly disappear although the weight restrictions have tended to do just that. I gather, for example, the Severn Valley has had to spend £1million in a hurry and this issue is another reason why lines which were not engineered as principal routes should not operate large machinery, at least not regularly.

I don't care whether machinery originated with the Big Four, B.R. or the N.C.B. as long as its power is appropriate to the job in hand and the weight not excessive.

Paul H

 

Is it not something like a GWR 1500?
Outside cylinders make it more interesting for grandsons.

 

Don't think anyone on here has suggested a newbuild J94, or a newbuild Black 5.
What has been suggested is that something more exotic could be created using bits from the plentiful supply of out of use j94's

 

And footplate crews as speed rises!

 

Should have been a 2-6-0 !

 

A 2-6-0 tank? Only the Garstang & Knott End Railway ever had one of those! It was named "Blackpool" and became LMS 11680. No I'm not suggesting it as a new build either!!!

 

If you haven't been to the Foxfield Railway you haven't been born. An 1874 industrial engine pulling 2 MK1 coaches up the hill and just going at about walking pace while working flat out is something you have to see and do.

 

Swindon sketched out a 2-6-0T in the mid 40s. its drawn in one of the RCTS books. Its vaguely an 8750 boiler on a outside cylinder chassis which has a longer fixed wheelbase than a 1500 but shorter than a 5700. By the looks it probably had the same cylinders and valve gear as the 1500. If I'm any good at reading the dimensions it doesn't really offer anything much that the 5700 didn't give. I suspect, actually, its more of a "nice idea, but it won't work" sketch than a real proposal.

 

The LMS also sketched out an outside cylinder 0-6-0 with Walschearts valve gear at about that time. I have seen a drawing of it in E S Cox's Locomotive Panorama. I assume it was dropped in favour of the Ivatt class 4 2-6-0

 

I think this is borne out by the evidence. Take, for example, the WSR.

For the first few years of that railway's preservation era, steam power was provided by a couple of (very powerful) Bagnall ex-industrials.



AIUI, those years were precarious for the railway, poor finances threatening its existence.

Beginning at the end of the 80s, they hired in 92220 for a couple of seasons and returned first 53808 and then 4561 to service. and it was in this period that visitor numbers jumped and the financials started looking a whole lot healthier.

A J94 can pull a train, but can it pull in the crowds? You can assert that the general public aren't interested in what's on the front, but the evidence suggests otherwise. In fact it suggests that a narrow-minded focus on the bottom line can end up destroying the business.

 

The ELR started with industrials too, they had an ex Manchester Ship Canal Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T, a J94 and an RSH with outside cylinders, ex Meaford Power Station. Also as loads increased, larger locos became necessary

 

Agreed, I think it is especially the case if they are trying to sell it as a "Great Western Line" as the West Somerset Railway was/is. In that case you need something Great western running. Although I haven't been to the Foxfield the J94 industrial types at least fit in perfectly with the image/history they are trying to sell, ie a colliery type line. Those early Bagnalls the WSR used actually came from the Longbridge British Leyland car factory and my father recalled them working there in the 1970s and took a few pictures. I guess they just bought what they could get hold of at the time.

I do like it when preserved lines try and run locos/coaches that fit in with that lines history, so somewhere like the NYMR should try and run stuff that was used in the North East etc, so getting back to the New Builds thread I would like to see railways build what is appropriate for the line

So somewhere like the Mid Norfolk would be great to see a J15, J17, E4, Claud Hamilton or something like that because it is what would have been used originally on that line. Same with every other line, what is appropriate historically for that line.

 

Of course, what is most appropriate historically for preserved lines is too few passengers, haemorrhaging money, and then closing....!
I too like to see some regional flavour to lines if they can. Far easier for GW branches and secondary routes than for LNER, for example.