Current and Proposed New-Builds

"It" relates to the design (as you are perfectly well aware.)

PH

 

Half agree with you. It's still WIBN though,

PH

 

How about GWR No.36 then? An altogether more pleasing on the eye loco than a Kruger, (IMHO), and it would redress the current lack of Indian red framed GWR motive power and it was the first GWR 4-6-0, and it looks different enough that heathens may just be able to tell it apart, and big chufferists would go nuts for it too!

 

Paul, if you come in a thread with "proposed new builds" in its title, you'll be saying WIBN 'till you're blue in the face, because all new builds are WIBN. No one is seriously floating anything unlike folk like Mr Reeder etc. it's just a bit of fun that doesn't require someone to come along and tell them to stop being silly.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

well there were two designs so it's they; a 4-6-0 and a 2-6-0

 

The point has been made that being an important gap in the story isn't enough by itself. If that were the case, by rights, there should already be a Brighton 'I3' plodding up and down the Bluebell. Although a four coupled loco with 6ft 9in drivers is probably (!) less than ideal for a challenging heritage route with a 25mph speed limit, these beasties were the landmark design which convinced the LNWR and, incidentally, their nomimal designer Marsh(!), that superheating was a good idea. That has to count as a significant gap, yet has anyone suggested one?

Even with the success of 'Tornado', how many norms would know the name Peppercorn? Let alone that his A1 design represented the culmination of a quater of a century's 'pacific' development on the East Coast? What allowed the project to succeed so spectacularly was a fist rate design and engineering team working to a realistic plan, an exceptionally savvy approach to publicity and, not least, a well organised funding stream. The links created with the contemporary engineering industry have been a notable key feature too. The fact that A1SLT have engendered so much enthusiasm for the P2 (the P2 for heavens' sake!!) project underlines all these points. Next to this, the putative V4 ('Bantam Chick' perhaps?) looks like childsplay! Whatever any here think of Sir Nigel's designs, it can't be denied that over three quarters of a century after his death, the name of Gresley still resonates. Actually, it pretty much defines the public's idea of 'The Golden Age of Britain's railways'..... and that, you can take to the bank! Just about the only other railway engineers any norms are likely to know are Stephenson (though I'd bet most don't realise there were two!) and Brunel. Well, I suggested one of IKB's monstrositi..... locos a while back. Didn't exactly set the forum alight, did it?

I'd agree that a few selected extinct pre-grouping designs to better illustrate the history of our railways would be nice, but rich benefactors aside, there's a mountain to climb to get the enthusiasm together, let alone a build team. The only efforts which currently seem to be bearing much fruit are the NER G5, plus, more questionably, the LNWR 'Prince George' and the Holden F5. If too many start, stall and peter out, the negative effects won't improve chances for the credibility of future projects.

 

'they was a failure'?? ...... See?...I can nit-pick with the best of 'em!

 

Would it not be better to concentrate on finishing the locos started first before deciding what else should be built? It seems to be the case there are too many projects already and I can see a number of them not being completed already. Is there a risk of whims and fashions changing and people diverting their funding from an existing project into the latest WIBN idea?

 

where's that quote from? I didn't mention was or were.

 

A spot on post.

PH

 

BTW 30854, Ive looked up that Cork coal gantry loco "Pat" as id never heard of it before and found a couple of photos, what a brilliant machine!

 

It was a comment from the perspective of someone with an interest in history and railway histrory, who feels that for any scheme to go beyond "WIBN" it needs to demonstrate not just an academic interest but also do something that will help visitors who don't know a superheater from a regulator why what's in the platform is different from what they might see elsewhere - or even at another time in the same place.

As someone who rightly proclaims the virtues of his home railway's historical positioning, I'm surprised to see you so dismissive of this point - and, no, I'm not suggesting a new build for the IOW.

 

Fair enough..... I'm quite happy to ...... but we've all been beaten to it! A recreation of IWR 'Ryde' seems to be front runner and very good it would look too. I can't help feeling something more IWR 'Wroxall' sized would better suit the IWSR's requirements, plus no pillock would arrive at Wooton claiming the loco said the train was going to Ryde!

There was a suggestion that one of the contemporary BP 2-4-0t locos surviving in Australia could be re-imported and restored, but as none of the survivors seems in any imminent danger, I don't see this being likely without the blessing of our muckers 'Down Under'.

My own vote would go to the first IWCR No.7, an ex-NLR 4-4-0t. I'm an IWC fan and the IWR always seemed a bit too......'sensible' for my tastes! Given I'm probably the only one bonkers enough to suggest this loco, if it turns up unannounced at Haven Street about the same time as a K turns up out of the blue at SP, it'd be odds on it was a large lottery win ...... Dream on, Howard, dream on!!

 

I suppose the real problem is I haven't really the slightest idea of what you are trying to achieve. Most "normals" would be bemused if you said to them something like "we built this as an example of the Stirling school by contrast to the Stroudley school". It would bore them out of their not necessarily tiny minds. Getting across to people how things were is an amalgam of motive power, rolling stock, signals, stations, tools and the generality of things. Be around, answer as far as possible questions they may have. These are unlikely to include queries as to superheating any more than visitors to a motor museum are likely to be eager to know how many camshafts are fitted to a given engine.


It's a gricer foible to concentrate on locomotives alone. No tourist line can be 100% authentic but it is disappointing that it is the hardest thing to find a reasonably authentic branch line train on such a railway.


PH

 

After they began to realise how many relics had been spirited away from their country, the Australian Government became very tough about such things. I have no idea how they would regard exporting one of the Beyers or the copy by the Vale Foundry. They are not all standard gauge incidentally.

When we re-imported a presentation salver with I.W.R. connections we were concerned lest an export block was placed upon it. In the event, the Australian Government not only placed no such block but were most efficient in dealing with the matter.

This object illustrates how there is more to running a "heritage" railway than the locomotives.

Paul H

 

Fair enough - I'll take that.

However, what you say about the overall experience makes precisely my point. You need to take those "normals" (and, actually, plenty of the "gricers" too...) out of their present and into a situation where they start to see their experience as if through the eyes of someone of the period. That is NOT about whether it's a Stirling vs. a Stroudley, but about the total experience, and creating the sense of being in a different era - closer to the Beamish/Blists Hil type experience, if anything. At a technical level, it might be about drawing attention to the size of the locomotive, and how it is suited for it's heritage load - or not suited for 6 Mk1s (pick railway, to suit!). If period (not necessarily railway correct) carriages are available, it's about helping people to consider how an excursion party (which, frankly, is what most heritage railway visitors are) might have experienced that kind of train.

In the same way, at Sunday's concert, the programme note and a (good, witty) speech by the conductor helped make us aware of how how the performance was not "just" a normal performance, but got us to make an imaginative shift to see it through something slightly more like the eyes of a Leipzig churchgoer c. 1739. I've not seen it, but I believe the Radio 3 & BBC4 coverage also did that for those not in the hall.

 

I absolutely agree - when I manage a trip to the IOW, it will be the carriages that are my first focus. Even if I have to endure haulage by an inauthentic Ivatt

 

As Paul says, much more than just locomotives. There's a superb recent photo of an IWSR Terrier, complete with "coal train" in tow on their Facebook page. It just oozes athmosphere. If you saw it in monochrome, you'd swear you were looking at a photo from SR days.

https://m.facebook.com/events/311347876007276?__tn__=*s*s-R

There was a post suggesting a Johnson era Midland 0-4-4t, which I suggested would require some suitable stock. I feel the same when the LBSC D1 is mentioned. Luckily, there are suitable 4w carriages in varying stages of existence, should one of Stroudley's 0-4-2t's make it back from oblivion.

A working Southern P-P loco and set would be a sight to behold on some future branch line weekend (You GW types can't begrudge us 'Southerners' that...you've got the kit to play autotrains right now). Swanage, Isle of Wight, Mid Hants and Bluebell would all be appropriate locations. Now there's a missing component of branch line life from pre-Grouping LBSC right through Southern days up to the early 60s.

Other early railway technology, like fish-bellied wrought iron rails, are best demonstrated well away from running lines!

 

My first visit was an eye-opener. After all those mainland MK1s with tatty BR moquette (70's and 80's), the beautifully restored IWSR stock was the first time I saw authentic SR trim. That was decades ago and of course, these days, many lines are fielding their MK1s with correct period trim and in their proper place, with appropriate haulage, they look every bit as 'right' for a heritage line. Ditto the Maunsell and Bulleid stock now returned to it's former glory.

The 'inauthentic' Ivatt (soon to be pluralised) I can live with. Sooner a 'Mickey Mouse' than running the last 02 or the Terriers into the ground. Besides, I'm quite partial to these well proportioned massive (by IoW standards!) little locos, which aren't a million miles removed from what nearly happened in reality.

'Calbourne', 'Newport' and 'Freshwater' will be available for high days and holidays. "See website for details", and the 2mt's will ensure they still will be for years to come. I'd call that a win-win.

 

A 2MT is a perfectly authentic branch line locomotive. The Austerities are less so .

No need to wait. Just about every two train day you can experience W8 or W11 in charge of the Ventnor West push-pull set No. 484. There are quite a lot of pictures of this pairing in the 1930s and some cine film.

Paul H/