CathEx - Chester - April 2nd

Eh?
The signal boxes are manned, if they aren't then there's no trains in or out of the station.

Bit of a major balls up by the sound of things, 'cos I understood it wasn't supposed to be stopping in the platforms.
Certainly in the past I've been round the triangle on service trains when they've been working on the track preventing trains getting into the platforms using the normal routes, so there hasn't been a problem with passengers going round in the past.

Hey Ho, such is life. <shrug>

 

Well we certainly stopped in the platform at Shrewsbury and we all had to detrain while it was turned and when it was all done we were 43 mins late and yes you could say it was a balls up, like the cock up the Dutchess seem to have had at Carlisle the same day!

 

Isn't there a rule that passenger trains are not allowed to reverse with passengers aboard hence the need to detrain at the station before commencing the manoeuvre ? I seem to recall this rule being applied at Kettering in the late 1950s when some trains needed to change platforms due to broken rails in the station area.

 

I have been on passenger trains that have set back a considerable distance without having to detrain.

 

At a guess, while reversing, the train had to pass over a facing point which was not fitted with a facing point lock, and there was no one available on the ground to clip and padlock the point ?

 

Yes that is correct and what Ray told me.

 

And there was a diesel on the back, so there wasn't any propelling involved anyway surely.
Incidentally, was it a DB loco that brought the train from Euston and back?

 

http://sulzerpower.com/news.html suggests 47580 so would have thought WCRC throughout, although joint ToC do happen...

 

Well, had that rule existed, it would certainly have made operations at Dorchester South during steam days rather more protracted, to say the least ... I'm sure there were other locations where reversing a loaded passenger train was routine practice, not to mention the use of push / pull trains or joining of through branch portions to mainline trains which would also require propelling moves with loaded trains.

Tom

 

I think it's one of those "unless otherwise authorised" situations. The default is that you mustn't propel with passengers on board, but there are situations where it's necessary, so special local rules are devised to make sure it's done safely. It's not the sort of thing that gets done for one-off situations.

It sounds as though the issue at Shrewsbury was that a facing move had to be done without the points locked by a Facing Point Lock and without being clipped and plugged. That's something that's never allowed with passengers on board. I'm not sure that the clip needs to be padlocked, though. IIRC, that happens when points have to be left clipped in one position for a length of time.

 

Happened to me on a rail tour once in the early 70s. Train should have stopped at Kenny O but went sailing through and came to a halt well beyond the limit allowed for setting back. Rules said we should continue to the next station, back then that would have been Willesden Jct. but there was no easy way of getting the passengers back to Kenny O. Long conversation between driver and signalman/control via the line side telephone and eventually we propelled back into Kenny O.

 

That was what I'd heard too, although I wasn't at Shrewsbury to see the turning move.

Have a look at the track diagrsm at http://roscalen.com/signals/Shrewsbury/index.htm which may throw some light on what happened.

 

Ah. now that sounds highly likely!

No problem with a signalman to turn the points, just nobody in a position to walk up to the points and clip them in position so a passenger carrying train could go over.
It seems these days it's not possible for signallers to perform such actions, it has to be someone else who turns up in a white van.

A similar thing occurred a few years ago at Craven Arms whilst Tornado was watering in the goods loop. The signalbox is literally the other side of the level crossing away, but the train was delayed leaving whilst waiting for a little man in a white van to drive down there to clip the points so the train could exit, because as a goods loop it doesn't have facing point locks operated from the 'box.