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Flying Scotsman

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 73129, Aug 24, 2010.

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  1. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Out of interest, there is a photo by O.J. Morris (Better known for his pictures of Brighton Atlantics and Terriers) of Scotsman running as 60103 with double chimney but without smoke deflectors at Hadley Wood working the down "Talisman" on 28th October 1959 - a schedule demanding virtually a mile-a-minute schedule non-stop from King's Cross to Newcastle (270 minutes for 268 miles to be exact). While no one would dispute that Scotamn's greatest moments of glory took place when it was numbered 4472 and painted in Apple Green, the fact that at the age of 36, it was rostered to work the fastest ECML express of the day rather than an A1 or an A4 suggests that it must still have been a pretty decent engine in BR days.
     
    John Petley, Jul 10, 2015
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  2. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

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    The Perform program of Prof Hall can simulate this, it does not output such a high number. Even Giesl in his comparisons between different systems quoted 130 ihp for the case of the single Jubilee and a Gieselised one. Please do yourself a favor, draw an indicator diagram, bottom 10 psi backpressure. Now draw the line for the lowered backpressure, 5 psi. Does it look
    like a 30% increase in indicator area? Of course if the ultimate performance is compared to anything else one might quote such a number, but is it a decent comparison?
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
    JJG Koopmans, Jul 10, 2015
    #3322
  3. fish7373

    fish7373 Member

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    Picture 003.jpg Picture 003.jpg Picture 003.jpg Picture 003.jpg This one 4472 81c FISH7373 81C
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
    fish7373, Jul 10, 2015
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  4. fish7373

    fish7373 Member

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    19389073468_e527480685_b.jpg OR this one FISH7373 81C
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
    fish7373, Jul 10, 2015
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  5. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    While I tend to prefer the Big Four Grouping liveries, I'll admit that guise does look handsome on old Scot. :)

    Plus I believe it's been a good long while since we've seen it like this.
     
    JMJR1000, Jul 10, 2015
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  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    For me - the latter. It's the guise I first saw her in at Llangollen. Looking forward to seeing her so liveried.

    I think many people forget that with the addition of the A3 boiler, the locomotive end is actually more or less fully accurate to her end of career with BR form. The tender itself is in the right livery too - for it was in that livery when pulled by an A4. Separately they are both correct, together they are not technically. But they will look splendid regardless.
     
    S.A.C. Martin, Jul 10, 2015
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  7. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Definitely the latter for as long as it retains the big mouth and ears. In due course I am willing to pay, as usual, for the cosmetic (and other) surgery required to restore a more youthful and beautiful appearance. Ask any of my ex-wives.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
    Miff, Jul 10, 2015
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  8. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    This may sound odd.....whilst i look forward to 60103 on the mainline.....i cant wait to see her on a Van train at the GCR.....
     
    paullad1984, Jul 10, 2015
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  9. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Nothing odd about that -would look the mutts! :)
     
    Duty Druid, Jul 10, 2015
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  10. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Despite my provocative comments above, I think Scotsman looks good in either guise. She pulls off that dreadful GWR sludgy colour surprisingly well :). Even the sideburns look OK really.
    I just get bored of EVERYTHING being BR, and think she looks BETTER in Pegler condition.
    I do hope she eventually goes Apple Green and single chimney, but I will enjoy seeing her in the meantime.
    And there is always Green Goddess...
     

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    andrewshimmin, Jul 10, 2015
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  11. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    Not that straight forward I suspect. The A3s received larger main steam pipes during the course of their LNE existence, there remained the restriction of the feed arrangements to the steam chest which remained 115mm (4 1/2) as opposed to 127mm (5") for the steam pipes. The fact that those responsible for working the double Kylchap A3 and the the single chimney A4 viewed the two as being comparable is of interest, as is the performance of 4472 in preservation when first re-fitted with the double chimney exhaust.
    It would be of interest to have the results of a full range of indicator tests for both classes in both original and Kylchap equipped condition. We are not likely to benefit from this material sadly.
    I would be very cautious about taking the advice of a single academic. Gresley took on board advice from Dalby who, in the event, proved to be totally wrong. And you must be well aware of the views some have on Giesl and his creation.
     
    242A1, Jul 11, 2015
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  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I claim the copyright!
     
    Matt37401, Jul 11, 2015
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  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    You sir, are a dreamer of beautiful dreams. I for one want to see 60103 on it's way past Sheringham golf course!
     
    Matt37401, Jul 11, 2015
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  14. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    For me?? out of KX with 10 on and up the ECML to York. Any colour.:)
     
    Victor, Jul 11, 2015
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  15. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    For me, it would be great to see 60103 down south. Mind you, if RTC could run just ONE "Dorset Coast Express" to Weymouth next year with a steam loco in each direction plus steam banker to Bincombe, if 60103 was rostered and the other loco was 35018, then I'd be travelling rather than linesiding if at all possible.
     
    John Petley, Jul 11, 2015
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  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Add Bittern's second tender, VT's water carrier and mark the 90th anniversary of the non stop with a run from Kings Cross to Edinburgh. :)
     
    Spamcan81, Jul 11, 2015
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  17. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Heading along the rebuilt Waverley Route please.
     
    Martin Perry, Jul 11, 2015
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  18. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    60017, Jul 19, 2015
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  19. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    david1984, Jul 19, 2015
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  20. BillyReopening

    BillyReopening Member

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    Nicely avoiding all the controversial stuff there NRM spokesman! Draw a line under it and move on - very well done....

    I always love seeing footage inside Ian Riley's workshop! Not sure when he is moving to new facilities but where he is now certainly has the air of timeless tradition too it - not quite as clinical as the vw dealership garage look Jeremy Hoskins new place has...
     
    BillyReopening, Jul 19, 2015
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