Where is the missing S160?

Interesting pic. It does not look like 162's boiler, but it does not have barrel mud hole doors, like the Ruddington MAV boiler has. It could be the original boiler, and the engine is carrying a newer spare, either a rebuilt MAV, or 162's.

 

he's not doubting you, he's just pointing out that the picture isn't actually proof

 

Now don't you start! What more proof can I offer?

 

not starting anything, don't be taking offence, he was just pointing out that the photo itself isn't proof of anything, I'm sure we're all quite happy to take your word for it! Ypu don't need proof.

 

I've just been looking at picture of 5197's boiler at Cheddleton, and it's a Hungarian MAV boiler, but superheated,

 

Thanks, that's the very point I was making.

 

so 8 UK S160's...

Known origin & worked in preservation : 5 in total
PKP: 5820 (Keighley), 2253 (NYMR)
MAV: 6046 (CVR)
China: 5197 (CVR)
Greece: 3278 (MHR)

Questionable Origin / Not worked in preservation : 3 in total
1631 (GCR) - 411.388 MAV
2138 (GCR) - 411.380 MAV
2364 (GCR) - unknown

Unknown Origin:
Turkey 1 - No record of a Turkish S160 in the UK.

No 2364

So 2364 looks like the odd one out, going further, the following link suggests the locomotives ancestry is unknown, note some interesting comments highlighted in the text:

http://www.uklocos.com/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=4910

Posts 50 and 26 suggests that this is one and the same loco...

As no known identity has been established relating the engine to MAV and as pictures in Poland and the UK look tantalisingly similar, maybe 2364 is actually the missing PKP Tr203-162 ?
We also have a spare boiler for 2253 (if this is confirmed) then maybe a boiler swap occurred, and the above link confirms the cylinder block exists for 2364 at GCR, just not on the loco / visible in the picture.

Finally, it is documented that in the 1970s after MAV have retired the 411 class, a large number were sold to PKP in Poland, essentially as spares or some for operation, maybe this is where the confusion arises... could it be 2364 is ex MAV, via PKP and so explain the presence of some MAV and PKP markings ?

 

Still not very happy.

I started out thinking there was a loco missing, but all the frames are accounted for bar 1 Hungarian S160, but as we now know only 3 were imported, not 4 the numbers add up. Just the real ID of some engines seem to be in doubt.

As far as I'm aware, and based on what I know, 288, and 162 are the correct PKP numbers. The original PKP Export engine on the KWVR, is way before my time, but I think the detail on that one are well known.

The only real way of knowing which engine is which is to look for the numbers on the frames, but that's not my job. If these had all been in Barry, we would know the history of almost every rivet. And if the books for the Polish engines had survived, then we know everything too. As for MAV. I never had any dealing there, so in the words of Faulty Towers " I Know Nothing!"

 

Hi ADB.

I can't see the full post your quoting from. Could you post the text of the thread here?

 

I'll now have to go looking for the pictures I took at Bury when the MAV engines arrived. I seem to remember all the 162 frames were in the works with the cylinder blocks, and the boiler was on a flat.

 

http://www.uklocos.com/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=4910

Posts 50 and 26 suggests that this is one and the same loco...

As no known identity has been established relating the engine to MAV and as pictures in Poland and the UK look tantalisingly similar, maybe 2364 is actually the missing PKP Tr203-162 ?
We also have a spare boiler for 2253 (if this is confirmed) then maybe a boiler swap occurred, and the above link confirms the cylinder block exists for 2364 at GCR, just not on the loco / visible in the picture.

Finally, it is documented that in the 1970s after MAV have retired the 411 class, a large number were sold to PKP in Poland, essentially as spares or some for operation, which kept the tr203 working a decade longer, maybe this is where the confusion arises... could it be 2364 is ex MAV, via PKP (and possibly spare parts inbetween) and so explain the presence of some MAV and PKP markings ?
It goes without saying that in the UK some spares have probably been swapped about in getting some up and running..

 

Why can't the guy who wrote that post write in English, not some weird shorthand, but trying my best to understand it, it looks like he's talking about 162's frames, as they were painted in red lead. All the Hungarian S160's were covered in best quality muck and rust. What confuses me is this pkp 5592. And the wheels of 162? I can't remember if he bought them. I think not, although I'm not sure. I wish I could ask Halina, but she's retired, although Marek her husband is still a director of AdTranz in Wroclaw.

 

This looks like Bury?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/owenchapman/7602711448/

 

That's Ruddington.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That's a Hungarian set of frames, with the torched off piston rod, but what are those two boilers, which are just in shot?

 

Has 5197 had a boiler swap? I just ask, because that boiler has mud doors on the barrel like the Ruddington boiler has, and that one is MAV. I remember, when 5197 engine arrived from China, lots of people said it's boiler was almost scrap, because of all of the Chinese welding repairs, and that boiler does not seem to be like the reports I heard.

It's strange, that none of the early days of these engines in the UK has been recorded. I've only ever seen one picture of the hand over of the K&WVR S160 in Katowice. I think it was still in PKP condition, but it must be 20 years since I saw that picture in Poland!

 

That picture is from a couple of years ago. A lot of work been done on it and its now ready for a lift to remove the wheels that it is on. Take a look at the Facebook page for 1631 for latest progress.

The two boiler backheads shown are spare boilers for the 16" Manning Wardles on the GCR, Both locos are under heavy general overhaul with 1762 well advanced and 2009 progressing.

 

somewhere in this thread someone questioned 3278 as being built by Baldwin, yet having Alco stampings on the front frame section, i believe, but dont know for sure that this engine recieved a new cylinder block/assembly from an Alco engine when in Helinic state railway ownership has anyone else heard this? of course it could have just been given another full set of frames, if the originals were beyond repair would it have still been the same engine number on the books ?