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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Captain Fantastic

    Captain Fantastic Member

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    I doubt whoever drove them down will drive them on the gala, its probably a volunteer GBRF crew on the WSR and paid one to take them in
     
  2. j&mkeynes

    j&mkeynes Guest

    On a not unrelated note, today`s episode of Flog It on the BBC contains some of the very best free publicity for the WSR I have ever seen. Paul Martin dons orange overalls and travels the full length of the line to Bishops Lydeard with driver Stuart giving him a good grounding in all cab basics. I`m sure Stuart is at the top of his game, but if ever he wanted to change direction, a career in PR beckons. (Available on the I-Player from tomorrow.)
     
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  3. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    A few random thoughts about train braking systems:
    I was at Chester a few years ago when the Voyager over-rode the buffers in the bay platform. Not speeding, just bad luck and maybe 21st century safety systems. It was drizzly and I watched the train get checked at the station throat. It could not have been doing more that 5mph as it entered the platform but the railhead condition meant it could not stop. A buffer stop, as you will know is the same as a signal at danger from a rules perspective. The driver knew this but the train must have forgotten on that day.
    The above was on modern air-braked traction. Much more controlled and much more instant response than Heritage vacuum braked kit.
    As to "checking" steam engines, heritage signalmen know what this means and know the huge impact it can have on the timetable. Vacuum brakes are neither instant on or instant off devices when used properly. You have to consider passenger welfare when making a brake application, in particular when entering a station when people may already have stood up as they prepare to alight. If you lose traction then frankly you are just along for the ride.
    Now the chances of us over-running at BA are slim to none, but the risk still exists and the official mitigation of that risk is to close the gates to road traffic in most circumstances. Changing the rules for BA would be a matter for the regulator, not for the railway or the local council.
     
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  4. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Had a lovely day at the Gala today on the only steam service running about in amongst all the diesel traction. It all seemed to go off pretty well even if the timetable ran a little late at times. Still on for 3 more days without steam for the next 2 as far as I know. Lovely to see the Teddy Bear out in traffic. I have a real soft spot for this class.
     
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  5. Peter29

    Peter29 New Member

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    GBRf are a customer responsive company in a competitive freight market - and need to respond to fluctuating customer requirements which change daily. Providing a driver on a goodwill basis for a heritage railway gala won’t be high on their priority list... Add in staff leave, going sick etc and things change very quickly.
     
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  6. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    However, heritage signalman are also very aware of Rule 39A. If the signalman cannot or are not going to clear a signal for a train, they must check it almost to a stand at the signal in rear. Following the rulebook is rather more important than not wanting a train to lose time.

    (yes, I know there are exemptions at terminuses, but these are specifically listed in the box footnotes)
     
  7. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for all the expert comment on Blue Anchor signalling.

    Seems to me all that is required is the checking at signal 2, and perhaps an additional signal between 3 and 2, or a calling on signal. The braking to a stop causing problems is really a nonsense as the Williton to Blue Anchor direction is on a modest down gradient. I suppose it all depends whether the signaller can see the checking at No.2

    Plus whether any train has overrun the crossing at Blue Anchor.

    Trains regularly go into platforms occupied by another train to couple up or wait a very short distance behind. This is a day to day occurrence. Trains are regularly stopped in front of a junction where a movement is taking place across the junction. I don't see that a road crossing posses any more risks.

    If a small alteration to the Blue Anchor signalling results in less inconvenience to road traffic, then theoretically it is possible.

    As for Blue Anchor being a 'no no' for alteration of it's signals I would cite the considerable modernisation of Horsted Keynes signal box in recent years. I can also think of lots of original boxes that have been significantly adapted, and no one bats an eyelid or raises any protest!

    I should imagine Blue Anchor signalling underwent some rationalisation in the 1960s.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Julian - I think you are mistaken in thinking that a “calling on” signal between 2 and 3 would mitigate the risk. A calling on signal is specifically used to authorise a movement onto a line where the driver needs to be prepared to stop before the next actual stop signal due to the line being blocked; it isn’t simply another caution. (Example would be to authorise a run round move back into the stock, which is blocking the line).

    Fundamentally, drivers will know the line with respect signals, gradients and so on; and drive accordingly. I can’t see how adding another signal between 2 and 3 mitigates the risk of over-running signal 3 and potentially hitting road traffic; whereas leaving the gates open for an approaching train does.

    There is another safety consideration when running in to a platform to stop, which is that if you run in too slowly, passengers start to open the doors to alight from the still moving train. That risk potentially increases if, by virtue of having the crossing gates shut, you have to bring trains in dead slow. Essentially if your mitigation of the risk of hitting the gates is to proceed at extreme caution, you increase the risk of people opening the doors while moving.

    Tom
     
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  9. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Tom,

    Many thanks for your reply. I don't recall passengers opening doors prematurely at Barnham when trains were 'called on' to couple up to a train already in the station.

    I did say "perhaps" to an additional signal between No. 2 and 3 at Blue Anchor.

    Dennis raised a valid point about the crossing being closed to road traffic for sometimes a long time. It is very annoying, and something I experienced earlier this year at Brockenhurst, and on previous car journeys in the last few years through Brockenhurst. When it gets to more than 3 minutes...

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  10. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    Three minutes? Luxury!

    Not to go all Four Yorkshiremen Sketch here, but my home town's main station has short platforms and level crossings at both ends. The distance between them is about 7 or 8 coach lengths. Up until the mid-90s the station was regularly served by trains which overhung the station and blocked the crossings at both ends; I'm told that when the station had a goods yard and parcels sidings too, the crossings would routinely be blocked for 20 minutes or so at a time whilst shunting.

    Incidentally I'm a bit intrigued by some of the suggestions recently in this thread that the ORR go about writing rulebook and designing signalling schemes! They approve such things, yes, but only after the railway concerned has produced them
     
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  11. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

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    Back in the 70's when I commuted to Waterloo the trains slowed right down as they arrived at the platform, and every door was open and people were jumping off long before the train stopped.
     
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  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I don't know for certain but I doubt that trains would enter the station and run right up to the awaiting stock without stopping first and awaiting a shunter/guard to signal them on. That would only be when safe to do so.

    There are undoubtedly many instances of trains being allowed to approach level crossings with the gates closed. At the end of the day it will be down to a risk assessment and the risk reducing factors can be many and varied. The methods adopted have to be suitable for all movement, not just passenger trains. Approach control would be relatively easy on the home signal to ensure that trains are under control on the falling gradient. On the NYMR, freight trains have to stop at the outer home (at the bottom of the 1 in 49) and phone the signalman before he pulls the board off as an additional measure.

    Personally, I think that requiring the gates to be open is OTT but I am not the one making the call and putting my name to the piece of paper.

    The ORR (HMRI) no longer approve such things. You have to get independent verification.
     
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  13. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the correction - I'd forgotten about that change.
     
  14. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Footplate crew are well aware of the rule and fully understanding of it when properly applied. :)
     
  15. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    Something that our guards have reported already due to the current 5mph temporary speed restriction. Anybody would think it was London in the 1960's!!
     
  16. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I see it happen often enough on my own railway, all the best drivers have a smooth but definite stop rather than gliding endlessly slower and slower. Good vigilance from guards, TTIs and station staff to shout at potential offenders helps too.
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's certainly the current procedure at Salisbury where an "up" service from Exeter is strengthened by adding an empty unit on the front for the run up to London - the rear part (arriving from Yeovil / Exeter) comes to a complete stop about three feet short of the front part; then is called on by someone on the platform. All the while the doors remain locked; they only release (and let the arriving passengers out) once the coupling is made.

    All of which I suspect has precious little to do with operations on a heritage railway, notably without central locking! Personally I think the traditional level crossing at Blue Anchor is one of the charms (and interesting operational features) of the station; if it causes a few minutes hold up while a train arrives, then so be it. It's not exactly the M5, is it?

    Tom
     
  18. weltrol

    weltrol Part of the furniture Friend

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    This one..... upload_2019-6-21_11-43-24.jpeg

    upload_2019-6-21_11-44-43.jpeg
    Gave me a bit of work that day...
     
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  19. Nick C

    Nick C Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember in slam-door days at Barnham, the rear part would pull up as you say, they'd wait for incoming passengers to de-train, then shut the doors and pull forward. I think the same is done these days at Horsham - they let the incoming pax off, then shut the doors, do the join/divide, then open them again.
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Is this where some smartarse mentions the Swanage's 'mainline' DMMU's?

    Sorry. Tom ..... just couldn't resist! :D
     

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