West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Yes it is indeed fascinating, interesting and useful historical information. It does not, however, apply to the current railway.

Steve

 

Where could I find such info for Taunton to Barnstaple line

 

Black Monkey Bridge - the second bridge from Blue Anchor towards Washford.

From the "bridges" page on wsr.org.uk

Steve

 

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=603
Download C, Page 172.

 

The "weight restriction beyond Washford" was actually an "engine loads for passenger, parcels,
milk and fish trains" ie on UP trains 310 tons Minehead to Washford 360 tons thereafter.
On Down trains 360 tons throughout.

The reason for the difference, the mile at 1/65 before Washford. ( the LH curve and section
in the cutting are subject to regular 'loco slipping' in wet weather. )

Under BR there was a speed limit to 40mph between 181miles 30 chains and MP 182.75
for UP and DOWN trains (Washford station is 182m 11ch) There was no restriction over
Black Monkey Bridge other than the overall 55mph.

Civil Engineers and Mechanical Engineers have invariably quarrelled over locomotive
route accessibility. Essentially ( as a Chemical Engineer I claim neutrality ) one is
focussed on static weights the other dynamic. The comparison between forces at
55mph vs 25mph would be reasonably simple if all locomotives were similar.
Issues effecting one loco class versus another include: static weight, distribution of
this weight, coupled wheel diameter (e.g. this will effect the speed at which 'fore and aft
motion may occur), balancing to minimise horizontal forces (this will produce an
increased vertical force), number of cylinders (e.g. a loco with four cylinders, depending
on the layout may be self balancing), length of cylinder stroke etc etc.

With respect 'exceptional load movements' is not quite the same thing.

It is perhaps worth noting that in the age of steam when a loco strayed over a route
where it was was prohibited the usual procedure was to impound said loco, then
check where it might clash with the loading gauge (e.g. foul a platform edge) and
then send it back (usually overnight) at 25mph.

Michael Rowe

 

Can you put it on your site??

 

Useful as always.

I was also a ‘neutral’ in the discussions. Often the ‘exceptional load’ was something like a component for a new bridge or other railway structure, so there was an incentive for the engineers to ‘find a way’.

On at least one occasion implementation of the movement plan made in a nice warm, dry meeting room involved me walking alongside the movement (ensuring it travelled at walking pace) also checking for clearance and the like. I always seem to remember such movements pretty much always occurring (1) at night and (2) in the pouring rain...

Steve’s site is, as always, a tremendous resource.

A particular joy if visiting this bridge is that the stream and the lane follow the same course here as can be seen from the photo.

Robin

 

Bring Wellies..................

 

I take it that Austerities are a civil engineers nightmare as they are banned

 

Personally, I prefer a good Jeep*.

Robin

*other 4x4’s are available...

 

Is this Jeep good enough for you?



Keith

 

Meanwhile back in 2019 on the WSR - good news has been circulated to the effect that the sum needed for a "WSR supporters" purchase of 4110 has been reached!

 

Isn’t this a wider problem of infrastructure- perhaps only the GCR and Kingswear branch are lines where the original infrastructure matches the demands now put on them (in terms of locos, train lengths, volume of passengers etc).

More passengers equals more revenue but it puts more pressure on the infrastructure.

 

Seeing as GWSR was mentioned somewhere, just thoght it worth noting that it was originally a Red route so could take everything at 60mph (probably the sorts of speeds that were achieved on our line, racing stretch it was not) except a King, Presumably last year it was decided that one doing 25mph for a few weeks wouldn't hurt anyone.

To some extent though what the original infrastructure was designed to deal with is somewhat immaterial, when the bridges themselves are going to be at least 100 years old, probably more. As such even a bridge on a "Red route" will quite likely still need some significant work done on it by now even if we wanted to downgrade to "Blue" - the savings would be negligible.

 

Thought everyone would like to share in this good news.
17:45 Friday 4th January 2019

Good Evening and Happy New Year

Myself and the other members of the group which have been working on a route to safeguard the future of 4110 for the West Somerset Railway since the summer of 2018 would like to thank you for your pledge towards the purchase of the locomotive from the West Somerset Railway PLC. The speed of the response we have received has far exceeded our expectations and we now have £120,000 pledged to the fund from 105 people. Several of you have even contacted us in the last few days increasing your pledge by 25%, this is fantastic and has moved us over the line.

As we have already stated, following lengthly exchanges the PLC asked us for £100,000 + VAT (£120,000 in total) to purchase the locomotive. The request to us was to raise this amount and purchase the locomotive by the end of January 2019. The fact we have now reached 100% of the required money in pledges has given us the confidence to continue and proceed with the formal establishment of a limited company and start the process of setting up a company bank account to receive the funds.

The company has been registered with companies house as GWR4110 Ltd. In order to ensure a swift set up model articles of association have been used. These will be replaced shortly with a revised version which will include articles that will as far as possible ensure the locomotive when acquired is protected for use on the West Somerset Railway, limits individual shareholdings and requires the agreement of a large majority of shareholders prior to any disposal of the locomotive. Initially the company has been set up with 3 Directors. These being David Hurd, Andrew Forster and Paul Orrells. Peter Chilcott, George Thomas and myself will join them shortly. We are all long term members of the WSR locomotive department and have been involved with 4110 since it was recovered from Tysley in 2015.

A Bank Account is currently being created and should be available to receive funds during the week commencing the 7th January. We will circulate further information and formal documentation once the account is established. At this stage we are asking that you make ready your funds to transfer into this account.

We hope you find this update useful and once again thank you for your support and commitment to ensuring the long term locomotive future of 4110 for the West Somerset Railway. 4110 is truly on the way to becoming the West Somerset Railway's People's Engine.

Yours,

Christopher Ruddick
On behalf of GWR4110 ltd

Ken D

 

Thanks for that GWR Man . I didn't dream that there might be two Foxcotes . I was surprised as there wasn't any sign of a Manor House past or present at the Foxcote I knew just outside Radstock .

 

LBSC named his manor 'Bedside Manor' & I dont think there is a house by that name.................

Funnily enough as I live in Frome & have seen signs to Foxcote outside Radstock I did wonder where the Manor was & the answer is 'not there'

 

Look forward to travelling behind 4110 this summer then !

 

Yes, it's due to run in the summer …..but not necessarily this summer <BJ>

 

Your posting set me thinking about speeds twixt Cheltenham and Broadway.

The March 1926 Railway Magazine included a collection of runs between Cheltenham and Stratford on Avon.
SIx northbound, two southbound. Locos were all 4-4-0s ( 'Counties' and 'Flowers' ) The quickest was even
time over the 29.1 miles, behind a Flower, albeit with a very light 110 ton train. Maximum speeds were in the
70-75mph range, (although one brave soul reached 80 before Honeybourne ) Schedules Northbound were 34 minutes over
the 29.1 miles. A time just kept by a County 4-4-0 with a 295 ton train.

Post WWII ( have had a quick trawl of the RPS database ) speeds were usually in the mid 50s to 60s. The best
run I have found was in 1948 with Hall 6961 and a 10 coach train (10/312/340) working through from
Paignton to Wolverhampton. 2 seconds under 33 minutes. 61mph at Winchcombe, 64 at Toddington, 73
max after and 70 through Broadway.

In 1926 the GWR was in competition with the LMS for Bristol Birmingham, post 1948 not

Not anything to do with the WSR except to emphasise that the WSR and GWSR were originally
very different Railways.

Michael Rowe