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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    No. Supporting a commercial operation like that would be unlikely to be charitable.

    Care has to be taken to support educational or heritage matters.

    Robin
     
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  2. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    And then be accused of going 'behind peoples' backs to put her own personal idea straight to 'those wot matter' without any gauging of wider support'? Or so the PLC Board can quietly bin the idea without any chance of their shareholders learning it ever existed?

    Funny how some people who were (rightly) opposed to the degree of power and (alleged) secrecy of the old WSRA Board seem to consider the 'perfect' WSRplc Board should be allowed both in buck-fulls. No Board should mind scrutiny and openness, which engenders trust (and allows them confidentiality without suspicion when commercially necessary) by those whose interests they are charged with safeguarding.

    When there seems to be a widely held concern about the state of the West Somerset Railway's infrastructure and how undertaking necessary renewals will be funded, while I can understand a view that 'nothing should distract from this problem' (while considering such a view to be mistaken and at least risk letting a crisis develop elsewhere), it appears that engagement with and motivation of current and potential supporters is even more vital than it always is anyway.

    Steven
     
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  3. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    So is there a role for the WSRA in fund-raising for track for the plc? If not, then maybe a different charitable vehicle is needed.
     
  4. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    The WSRA can amend its objectives subject to Charity Commission approval. The problem is with justifying that buying shares in a PLC supports the charitable objectives. I gather that the Charity Commission has previously raised this point with the WSRA. Hence, any charity would face the same challenge. I do not believe it would be impossible under a Share Issue with a prospectus if the projects covered by the prospectus were clearly (and probably quite narrowly) defined and could be shown as being within the Charity;s objectives.

    However, what a Charity can do is spend its money with commercial organisations in order to achieve its objectives. Otherwise, how could a charity 'spend' anything? Many charities contract commercial service providers to deliver their activities. The WSRA could raise funds for a project agreed with the WSRplc and then contract WSRplc to deliver the charitable activity specified on the appeal. In simple terms, in this case, 'we will fund the creation and maintenance of 'Goods by Rail' (other names are possible!) at Dunster for a period of X years', with more detailed terms on what was involved and how this delivered the (widely drawn) charitable objectives of the WSRA.

    Simply appealing for track renewals, in the structure the West Somerset Railway has, seems unlikely to be able to qualify as furthering those Charitable Objectives without some major restructuring of the organisations in question.

    Steven
     
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  5. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Not really as this is simply part of normal running costs.
     
  6. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    There is nothing to stop a charity appealing to cover its normal running costs, or indeed in effect those of the commercial company it uses to deliver its activities. Whether such an Appeal would be successful may, depending on the circumstances, be a different matter but 'fix the track or there will be no trains' can be an amazing mind-focuser.....!

    Steven
     
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  7. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    This is very wide of the mark. Robin has chosen to promote her objectives using social media to effectively put pressure on the WSR Board. I believe that it would have been much more effective to have initially presented an outline of them to the board. However now the genie is out of the bottle. Your comparison of the WSR PLC board with the old WSRA board does not seem to have any factual basis. The WSR PLC have been extremely open and have a culture very different from the secretive one you accuse them of in your first sentence. Realisticlly it comes down to a question of priorities and whilst new facilities are always welcome, I would suggest that there are more important things notably carriage sheds. Keeping the infrastructure in good order has to be a primnary concern. That is why I believe that, at present, the changes at Dunster, other than tidying up the site and possibly relocating the PW facility fall in the WIBN category.
     
  8. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    So, without knowing the cost of a proposal which has already achieved a high degree of 'that's a good idea', and hence could well see this interest and enthusiasm followed up by actual cash support, this proposal shouldn't get in the way of similarly uncosted (as far as has been stated on here) 'greater priorities' which also look quite likely to be much more costly (but there are no costings in the public domain for any of the different projects), and for at least some of which no firm plans exist.

    Sounds like a really good way of nothing happening on any front! Stifling all other projects to try and 'force' support into the main one is likely to be ineffective and demotivating enough, but at the moment, from what has been said on here, major infrastructure renewals and a carriage shed are 'big problems' and not even 'proposed projects'. Who knows, perhaps a new and purpose designed based for PWay activities may be a major assistance to the infrastructure issues!

    Steven
     
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  9. huochemi

    huochemi Part of the furniture

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    Thanks Steven. I was focusing on two issues (and I appreciate you may not be best placed to answer) 1. if the WSRA can have any role in a fund raising for track. If the answer is no, that seems to be a bit of a problem in developing the role of the WSRA. If the answer is yes, but subject to a defined "project" and/or perhaps subject to the ownership of funded assets staying with the WSRA e.g. track could be leased to the plc (payment perhaps being in shares), then that seems to worth bearing in mind. 2. If the answer is yes, and a cash grant can be made without retaining ownership, ring-fenced to a specific project through an agreement, then it sounds somewhat anomalous if it is OK to simply grant that money but not OK to do exactly the same thing and accept shares in return, so I am guessing the latter (i.e. accepting shares as part of the arrangement) is OK. I appreciate that is a bit off the wall but I was mulling over the general point about how the WSRA could expand its shareholding in the plc.
     
  10. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Could the initial clearance be self financing?

    A lot of the material may be worn out and fit only for scrap.

    Scrap steel prices have risen recently so £100 / tonne may be a ball park figure.
    PW Chairs are about £3 each unless you can find a few Antique varieties and sell them to the GWR for a lot more.
    Reasonable timbers not fit for track use about £10 each.
    Concrete sleepers such as BH types can have the chairs taken off and sold to Farmers for about £3 each for roadways or storeage bins.
     
  11. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    If Ben Franklin hadn't flown a kite or two, electricity might have been longer in being tamed to man's use...

    Robin
     
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  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The WSRA surely doesn't need to purchase shares to financially support the Plc? The GWR trust awarded the GWSR Plc over £300,000 last year IIRC, a hefty chunk of which went towards repairing a landslip. I know it does have shares, but I'm unsure if they have arisen the same way the WSRA's have. Either way, it just goes to show that a charity can award money to a Plc, as long as it can be shown that it is supporting the charitable objectives. I understand having some cross-board directors (we usually have 2 or 3) helps as well in this matter. So I'll say again, 'till I'm blue in the face, see how other railways do it and see if ideas can be had. E.g. Scrap chairs can be worth a lot more than £3 if you clean them up, slap some paint on and fit a bootbrush to them!
     
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  13. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    May I make a couple of slightly unrelated points.............

    It seems to me that Dunster is possibly the potential 'other honeypot' for the WSR, however it is a fair way from the station to the village. The 'Dunster Castle Express' undoubtedly addresses this to a degree however what about looking at improving links between the station & the village at other times? I suggest a minibus/taxibus might be a possibility.

    Secondly for various reasons I spend most of my 'Heritage Railway' time on the WSR however trips to (some) other lines eg The Bluebell & SVR suggest organisations that have 'Get up & go' the scale of recent work on the SVR - carriage sheds and The Engine House being a case to point. While clearly the SVR has been in business for longer & has the advantage of being close to a larger population clearly the WSR has quite some way to go.
     
  14. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Dunno... maybe its a horse powered 'auto cart' o_O (although if you have ever tried to get a horse to walk backwards...:eek: )
     
  15. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Please don't import to me motives that I do not have.

    I always knew that there would be an adverse reaction to the Dunster 'then and Now' photos. The views expressed here and on Facebook mirror those expressed regularly by the public on Dunster platform. On the (non-running) day that I took many of the 'Now' shots, a couple came onto the platform, expressed how wonderful the station was, and looked across at the yard and said 'what a shame'! It should be remembered that visitors have a clear view of the yard from the station but rarely get to see the station from the yard... tThe possibilities for Dunster have been talked about for AGES and if a few shots on social media bring those OPPORTUNITIES into focus, then IMHO that is no bad thing. The WSR plc have plenty to do and if the general reaction had been 'the yard is OK' or 'Dunster Goods is crackers' then I would have quietly moved on. Neither is true. Very well then, there is an opportunity for our Railway. An opportunity to have something no other Railway has, and to enhance the facilities for our P.Way staff and volunteers at the same time. An opportunity to create an additional destination, as the Board stated at the stakeholders meeting it wanted to do.

    So, I am happy work to examine and formulate this opportunity, with anyone who would like to work with me, and being public about it has brought forward several helpers.

    I will try to formulate it in a sensible way for the Railway bodies to consider, when it is in digestible form. It might not be me that does that.

    The last thing I want to do is to 'put pressure on the WSR plc Board. If we can bring them (and the other relevant bodies) a well-formulated opportunity, they can choose to pick up or reject that opportunity and, hopefully, if they do, give sensible reasons.

    To suggest that every kite has to have 'WSR plc approved' stamped on it, would be very strange. A great example is the purchase of what is now Norton Fields. This was undertaken by two supporters after it had been rejected by the WSR plc. They did the wrong thing? The WSR plc also rejected the Min of Food Depot at BL some 25 plus years ago. Was that the right decision?

    kind regards

    Robin
     
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  16. Quite right! It is a fair old way. And uphill on the outward trek.

    With tongue firmly in cheek, I suggest we go the whole hog and build a fab narrow gauge line from the Station to the Lawns. I'll dust off my surveying gear if someone'll offer to hold the other end of the tape ;)

    More seriously, it would be an opportunity for someone with a vintage bus...but wait...didn't we once do that kind of thing for our Dunster passengers?

    Even more seriously, the more we talk about Dunster Station, the more I'm convinced of my long-held belief that we are not making the best use of such a fine asset. It's quite likely the Infrastructure folks might well agree with that statement...I hope it has already been possible to involve them in discussion.

    Steve
     
  17. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    If that was all one was trying to do, no. I was hoping to kill a second bird.

    Noel
     
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  18. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ah I see now! :)

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    No doubt I'll get shouted down from various sides, but three or four years ago, my feeling was that the pan-railway governance was ill-defined, and even though the WSRA is clearly a better organisation now than then, that issue of governance still feel problematic. Hence what still seems to be (perceived or real?) distrust between organisations, and the seeming difficulty of doing what comes naturally on other railways of having a holistic vision which the various bodies then contribute to in ways that maximise their own core strengths.

    Can anyone point to a West Somerset Railway strategic plan? (As opposed to strategic plans for the individual bodies, i.e. PLC, Association, etc).

    Tom
     
  20. Another Yorkshireman

    Another Yorkshireman Member Friend

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    Please correct me if I am wrong - as frequently happens. I believe Somerset CC own track as well as trackbed and buildings, and WSR PLC pay rent on a care-and-maintenance basis. In which case ideas of WSRA funding new track, etc., may be even more impracticable, other than as extensions onto their own land.
     
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