West Somerset Railway General Discussion

In that case all heritage rolling stock needs immediate withdrawal because there are far safer items of rolling stock out there and available.

 

An illustration is the number of fingertip injuries sustained each year related to 'slam door' rolling stock. So should they all be converted to sliding or 'plug' doors?

Robin

 

Seriously - are there any / many slammed fingers?

Un-seriously, perhaps all passengers should be issued with hi-viz haz-mat scuba flotation parachutes before boarding.

or curatorially correct signage provided:

PASSENGERS are requested
not to SLAM their fingers
in the DOORS.

 

Now this argument is getting to the reductio ad absurdum stage. Just correct the wording using such font, colours and material for the sign as appropriate,

PH

 

What exactly could possibly be written on a sign that is going to guarantee 100% compliance?

Some people will think it doesn't really apply to them because they know railways, some people won't see them because they are distracted, some people will think reward outweighs risk, some people may not understand English - are signs to be written in multiple languages?

Just use historically correct signs, uphold the integrity of the desired heritage recreation and where extra safety concerns are warranted, have a manned post as has been suggested up thread.

Unless of course there is some OHS requirement.

 

The usual injury mode is slammingvthr door on someone else's fingers.

It neatly illustrates how risk assessment should be used for matters such as the absurd signs.

There are a measurable number of fingertip injuries a year, but set against the costs of replacing all the rolling stock, that risk / consequence is acceptable.

With the signs, there have (I believe) been no relevant incidents on the WSR the theoretical risk / consequence is acceptable in comparison with the existing signs.

Robin

 

West Somerset Railway - Then and Now #93

Bishops Lydeard 1972 / 2017

And here is a pair to 'ground' the other two landmarks at Bishops Lydeard that we haven't looked at yet - the Up Platform waiting shelter and the signal box. Both 'arrived' with the Up Plaform added in 1905.

The waiting shelter is still there, absorbed into the new buildings. The signal
Box is also still there but now surrounded by the platform extension and other development which we will look at more closely in later shots.

Copyright Nick Jones / Robin White

1972


2017

 

It is neither the presence of signage nor what they say that us causing the problem here. As Tom has already pointed out it is how effective they are in discouraging the public from endangering themselves. The English language has not changed greatly in the last 100 years, though common sense seems to have gone into sharp decline, seemingly in inverse proportion to the growth in litigious ambulance chasers.

If, and only if, signage is needed then the original WSR company. the GWR and then BR had 100 years to establish that need. Consequently there are authentic, well-worded and appropriate signs to cover virtually every requirement. The modern abominations stick out like the proverbial sore thumb (whether or not that has been carelessly inserted in a slam door).

The truth is that some members of the public who are perfectly happy to cross unguarded 30 mph roads every day, often with children, buggies or whilst using mobile phones seem incapable of engaging two brains cells when confronted with a railway.

If the clinically thick are incapable of reading notices, either new or old, then there is no signage in the world that will prevent them becoming terminally thick. If anyone feels the need to support a preserved crèche then please will they do so elsewhere.

 

"Common sense" means nothing more than "in my opinion". No one is saying that signage will prevent gricers from trespassing in pursuit of photographs, family groups attempting to picnic beside the track or incompetent learner drivers colliding with occupation crossing gates to cite three situations known to me. However such signage does enable the railway to defend itself in the event of there being a mishap.

Incidentally English does change with the years as do public attitudes and even the law. One example is the word "shown" which the GWR would spell on notices as "shewn".

PH

 

Possibly not so much "thick" as not familiar from childhood with this hazard.

I, like many on here no doubt, was brought up using public transport. Therefore I learned " at my mother's knee" about standing back from the platform edge, not touching the door handle until the train has stopped, crossing the line by the bridge etc.

But a great many people today have been brought up as car passengers or pedestrians, graduating to car drivers (of varying standards). The first time that they encounter trains may be at a "heritage railway" unless they are commuters in one of Britain's large conurbations.

I encounter this to a lesser extent when driving a bus, children who have previously been transported to and from school by car, having no idea how to behave on public transport. Whereas I was taken around as a child by my mum on the bus, and taught how to behave when doing so.

 

A fascinating pair of pictures, for which many thanks.

Am I allowed to commit heresy, though, and suggest that the pairing highlights what, to me, does not gel about BL station?

From my first visit to the station back in 1995, I’d always been struck by how short the down platform is compared to the up. Seeing this, I realise I have the comparison the wrong way round - it is the up that is too long! The effect, with other developments not all of which are on railway land, has been to lose the sense of a minor rural station as it once was, certainly by comparison with (for example) Crowcombe.

I should add that BL is not alone in this within preservation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Interesting comments! But to me it shows how the WSR has had to move on from a simple notion of preserving the old throughout the line. The platform extension and the shop, for example, are now there to cater for the vastly increased passenger numbers. Giving them what they want - a safe environment with retail/other facilities to suit. And a nice set of carriages, bright, airy, connecting and with a buffet, to get them to the other end and later back again. At least the WSR has plenty of other stations which do not need such improvements and can be restored more or less as they once were. Now, if only Dunster could be given that chance...

Steve

 

Indeed

BL has developed because it has had to as the terminal station closest to the point where its customers interface with the railway. In the original plans as I recall them being outlined to me the station would have continued as a wayside station on the DMU Minehead services to and from Taunton, with steam Williton Minehead. I first rode the line the year it reopened to Stogumber ( I was interested in buying a very old property for sale that the brochure related had been a inn years ago along a dirt track at the foot of the embankment then but was put off by the pylons) and recall I was the only customer on train both ways after Williton the staff were quite chatty and keen about the prospect of getting back to Taunton so things have changed a great deal since then. They told me an agreement had even been reached for DMU engine and gearbox repairs at Swindon. Back then the Park Royal dmus from a passenger perspective were in a good condition although as a (young) engineer the PW looked rough and ready from the train.

 

I don't think that expression means what you think it means. You seem to believe it means 'making an absurd argument', whereas it actually means using an absurd exaggeration to counter an argument. Robin used it very effectively, as I'd expect from a barrister.

 

One comment missing from Post 7470 by Wenlock is that for many heritage/tourist type lines the fact that the greater percentage of passengers on the busier lines are on holiday and often foreign tourists. Therefore they are relaxed and most likely not as alert as they may usually be. They - and frequently their families and children - are exited about their forthcoming train ride, often showing friends (Facebook?) and the world where they are and telling them what they will be doing. Sadly they do need highly visible signs to warm them of sloping platforms and other dangers. I doubt that any railway wishes a to have a passenger fatality or a serious injury on their line for all the reasons that would arise as a result.
I accept that the new signs do look rather striking and not welcomed by many enthusiasts, however, the reverse side of the coin is just as bad in my view, in that it is not realistic to present to passengers, who are, in the main, accustomed to 21st. century lifestyles, travel and attitudes to those which prevailed in the much slower lifestyle of the mid 20th. century.

 

Despite the misuse of the term the whole question of signs is getting out of hand. Next the elfin safety people will be demanding multi lingual signs in obscure languages that few visitors to the WSR comprehend even if they can be bothered to read them. Then there are dialects. Does, or should, the NYMR have signs in broad tyke so the locals can be protected from themsleves? Likewise should the signs at Washford be in broad Darset? Of course not! I sincerely hope that Ian Coleby will be able to convince his fellow WSR PLC directors to reel in who ever perpetrated this nonsense on the railway.

 

That's exactly what I take it to mean. Whether or not it is actually effective:- Pass!

PH

This is more reductio ad absurdum. Must be infectious in Zummerzet.

PH

 

Well, not really. You point out that someone's employing 'reductio ad absurdum', and imply that they undermine their own argument by using it. You've done it twice on this page.

If you want to counter an argument, you need to do more than correctly identify the tools your opponent is using.

 

Somewhat regrettable that one often encounters parents, accompanied by their children, who have no idea how to behave on public transport.

 

Quote the two post numbers please.

PH