"Welltrolleys" and things 60cm gauge

Over 8 years ago, I took on a project to build a 60cm gauge welltrolley. I envisaged as the L&B grew it would need to get machines into inaccessable locations. At the time the railway team were strapped for cash ( As always ) , and would not and could not commit to the expenditure I went ahead on my own, not expecting or recieving any support.
The wagon was built using a 1957 Hudson 10t bogie flat Ex Dean Hill . A whole new deck was designed and fabricated using reclaimed 6"x 5" imperial column section and the finished work was eventually outshopped in May 2005, from Abels Boatbuilders in Bristol www.davidabelsboatbuilders.com .The wagon should soon feature on their site they are currently building the new "MedwayQueen" paddle steamer hull all rivited !!

This wagon led the Narrow gauge world, but was never completed to my satisfaction once it left Bristol with fail safe twin line air brakes and screw jacks, in fact it lived on with no deck , but being used.

I notice the latest Ffestiniog magazine features pictures of it , "I am impressed to have reached the pages of such a prestigious magazine". However it doesen't say much about who owns it, who built it or why.

It was part of engineering & P'way forward planning exercise, that I invested in personally, Building jigs to drill sleepers for conformity and using pandrol fixings to reduce maintenance costs in the future as a policy suported by those in management at the time 2001-2005.

It was all done to try and move building the L&B further ahead and holding quality standards at a high level on track construction.

You need the tools to do the job if your going to be efficient,As most of you know efficiency is about reducing ongoing cost and removing manual labour and operating H&S risk with gang working.

The rail laying crane (Yellow if you can find pictures of it) that was built from 2 GMT mine flats grafted together to make a 32' deck with latice runway jib over, was part of this plan, however ineptitude within the current L&B has trashed it throwing the 38' latice tube jib in the long grass at Killington Lane to deteriorated further. The crane could lift a 30' rail and place it accuratly and carefully ahead of the current track panel in position using only 3 men with 2 traveling chain blocks, it carried materials to lay 6 track panels at a time ahead of itself, before restocking.

Brilliant again for building a railway, acnowledged at the time as "superb". This meant renewals and line work could be carried out in an occupation with only 3 men present.A dispute about insurance exists, however when I delivered it, I had certified it for use and tested it. Seems there are no competent people in the L&B now who can do this even the CME at the time.

It was envisaged that another ( even 2 similar to the welltrolley would be built, one being messing with stove for winter working and wash& toilet and first aid) the other would be built which would be a low floor workshop with onboard stores, machinery, drilling machine , forge and gas gear etc , generators, compressors, carrying all the jacks and tools, so that you could step straight in and work at ground level at any location.

Sadly it is unlikely that this forward thinking of 8 years ago, on the part of the inspiring( at that time) L&B will get into second gear beyond Killington Lane. "A Bridge Too Far" maybe.

Most of you know that I support the idea of a good section of the L&B being opened and buying pieces of trackbed in the hope that one day it can all be joined up , from my postings about EA's activities this should be clear I have hope.

I have invited the L&B to buy or rent the "Welltrolley" but they have declined or made inappropriate offers on several occasions.

So now's your chance, if any of you out there are interested in buying the "Welltrolley" that is currently on the L&B at WoodyBay, come and talk to me, maybe you can see the value in such a superbly constructed vehicle, I did, I watched whilst the elabourate weld procedure was carried out to construct it all without distortion of the all welded deck and swan necks.

Good bit of kit, even if I say so myself. "Lead the field" I was there 6 years before anyone else.I hope you agree.

Take a look at the L&B website http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk News section to see how really adaptable it is.Or in the WHR latest magazine L&B Pictures here and throughout the news section - http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/story/news/3495 .

Thanks for the read I can be contacted at andy.richards@talktalk.net If you want to ask more.


I also have 3 very nicely produced 8 plank coal wagons measuring 13' x 5' and 4' deep inside steel plated corners and diagonal bracing just like the Std BR type in grey and black , aluminium sheet over plank floors to make shoveling easy,and stop the floor planks rotting, anyone interested.

 

I'd of cut bits of that article out as being a little bit of a dig...but that’s just me I guess....

 

Prey tell us please, which bits are those then?

If it's just a guess on your part, why do you always attempt to belittle those who go against what you BELIEVE to be the case because you know no different?

Did you attend the L&BR AGM in May 2010 and witness the way the Trust Chairman deliberatly set out to shun all discussion of this welltrolley wagon?

Chris

 

Bit of a angry reply that! I don't belittle people at all, infact as I am rarely on NatPres I don't have an opportunity to belittle anyone, especially not TheEngineer because he's a nice guy! Indeed if you actually knew more and my enthusiasum for the L&B you'd know I'd never belittle anyone! Nor was I complaining because TheEngineer believes something different to me...all I was saying was that to avoid arguement it would have been better to remove the elements that were a bit more of a dig. Although obviously that failed to come across!

Why are posts about the L&B so highly charged?

 

Facts are facts, both what I have written in the first part of this thread, and AXE's comments to you as a result of your posting, of a slightly varying nature are very precise and FACT.

The result of last years AGM which I did not stay to witness any of the second part of. Was a sham and many of the long term members saw it like that.

This thread has been put up to inform the world at large of the facts, not to mislead anyone. I see no value in misleading people,I never have and never will. Those people fortunate enough to know me, know when I say I will do something I do.

Thank You All

 

I'm sorry if you consider my response to be a bit harsh, but I've just glanced through your previous posts. You cannot deny that you've had previous 'digs' at Andy and/or fought off criticism against the railway. When I read your message it was a case of here we go again.

Chris, I'm not going to respond to your question here. This is a public forum read by non-members of the L&BR. I know you are a member, so suggest you come along to the L&B AGM at Lynton Town Hall on Saturday 14th May. Going by the proceedings of recent AGMs, you'll be bound to discover the answer to your query.

Chris

 

The only reason I fight off criticism against the railway is because I want us all to come together and support it, as fighting is only going to slow the extension process down. That said, I know the world doesn't work like that, and I have spoken to Andy several times about the railway and his experiences.

It is a shame the L&B don't want it as it appears to be a very useful piece of kit and I hope someone does see the use in it!

 

I gather from Barrie Hughes' WHR site that Rheilffordd Eryri (or WHR Caernarfon) are looking for just such a vehicle.
Maybe Mr Engineer should see if they want his?

 

It's just Welsh Highland Railway these days, without the brackets.

 

I think paragraphs 14-17 of the original posting cover this aspect fairly well, along with the readers circulating information amongst themselves and the relevant departments.

Thank you readers, I await a discussion if someone chooses to have one.

I sum up there is more in it all than just turning up and buying a piece of equipment its not like individuals dealing with each other.

 

I see that the Weltrol was in use again this week - http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/story/news/3591

 

Update to readers general information.There is no problem created by this posting that Nat Pres should be concerned about, it is all fact, and can be backed up with relevant documentation.

It is important for all of you to read all of this post. Please,notjust part of it.I stand by everthing this post contains.

Brmp thank you for the posting about its continued use. I am well aware of how much of an important item it is, I have always maintained it would be a neccessary item of equipment ,I deal with H&S and methods of work on a daily basis in a professional capacity operating maintenance and access.

I could see that in time the Methods of work will neccesitate such a vehicle, no different to constructing the L&B using Pandrol clip system and spare blades for switches that are bespoke build.

In the beginning it was just put to one side marooned on a dead stretch of track by bridge 67, being of insignificance and no use to the railway in fact it ws implied I should take it away.

The railway spent more than its construction cost trying to Road rail the Excavator they have bought Emails exist between myself and them explaining the pitfalls in trying to do this . They have nothing to show for this expenditure, except some documents and drawings although I am not sure those exist.

The work envelope of an excavator of this size mounted on 60 cm flanged wheels is pathetic once you swing sideways, you don't need a degree in engineering to know that.


The ballast weight of the deck of the welltrolley gives greater stability, but still not acceptable in design terms for working at 90 deg to track alignment, It should only be used slewed to the side if the deck is fitted with screw jacks and they are packed and down so it is sat on jacks, not on its wheels.

From this threadposting there has only been one comunication with me directly and that was an enquiry about the 3 coal trucks from a dealer.Since posting I have not been memo'd by anyone.

The L&B have all the documentary evidence neccessry to know that the Well Trolley is solely owned by me it was registered in their own Assett Register 2006 as owned by AW Richards and always has been my property, they have always known that fact but have chosen to ignore it.

Last week they were forwarded Bank statements and Invoices detailing the aquisition of the donor vehicle, dating back to 2004, and its traceability in build in photographs,more documents can be made availible from the builder.

Its very nice to have the kit, but somewhere along the line someone has to pay so far that has been me.

At last years AGM I told Peter Miles as Chairman across the room with all the audience listening that I would go to Court to recover it, he said in response "See you in court".We are not going to discuss it.

I can take County Court action, but will it help the aims and objectives of the L&B, in the greater plan, that you all wish to see expand and grow with credibility , will it improve public relations having it in the Western Morning News "L&B taken to court to reposess personal assets and loose".

I think not and that is why I have not taken this action although I am quite within my rights to do so.

In the last 18 months the operation of the L&B has just ignored the fact they don't own it and claimed its theirs and have worked on and modified it , and gone on using it with no reference to me as owner whatsoever. Do I have a problem?

However the management that all of you members have elected choses to go on the way they do from my perspective , this is just one of many issues.

My supposition is this, some time in the future the L&B will come under new management,it has to, they will be more astute, hopefully.

This issue will get addressed along with other issues that pend in the wings, you should be aquainted from the other threads I post on.

The WHR & Fez , where do they fit in all this ? They want a well trolley something like the L&B one, but don't realy want to be involved in the issues of the L&B, of which I expect they are aware.

They want to build it at Boston Lodge,their contribution to its costs, because they have a facility to do such work and want to keep the money in house.I cant say I would be any different in view.

They are building new underframes and bogies for the Essex Group Coach project , considerable spend in the region of £45K, I guess politics would not want to get in the way of income either.?

Who is right, I am right, I own the goods but I don't want to damage the L&B project, so what action should I take .

I should first make everyone aware of the facts. Over 12 months ago The L&B management asked Devon & Cornwall Police to investigate Me and several others in respect of missing goods or funds or malpractice. After a long and lengthy investigation ending Dec 2010 the CID found us clean, and everything in order.What a surprise.

Whilst your being investigated, you cannot take out County or other court actions against the people who are having you investigated.

Look very seriously at the people who are trusted to run organisations, not just this one and their aims and objectives and their understanding of life.


No one wants to buy a well trolley at present, not that it concerns me greatly I built it to rebuild the L&B and that is the place I wanted it to be, politics, but some people would happily steal it from you.

Thank you all, these are facts as laid down, you all need to know them,some of the facts are not particularly nice there have been a couple of people tried to resolve the affairs of the L&B since 2007 but it is not done yet and they too have found out what the real facts are I just feel you should all know.

The Engineer

Andrew Richards L&B Honary Member no R012

Joined 1989 active in the construction of coaches, bogies, on track plant, Locomotives track construction of the L&B 1995 -2007.

 

Wow - it was nice of Andy to let everyone know that there is a dispute over ownership of this well trolley when he first posted this thread trying to sell it.
National Preservation should really do something about a thread that appears to be part of an ongoing legal dispute!!

 

There is no dispute I own it,I have provided clear evidence in document form to support that, the people who have it, will not recognise that or release it they are reputedly highly professional.To remain credible in front of all the readers they need to address their issue.

Might I suggest you read my last posting again Mr ball, it is quite clear and spells out the situation clearly, I know you alegence to the current people but whatever you post cannot detract from the facts.

It is important that many people understand exactly what the state of affairs is.

Action by me if it were taken, would damage the long term prospects of the L&B rebuilding is that what your promoting just like the Chairman did at last years AGM.

 

Andy seems to think you can prove that a dispute over ownership doesn't exist by simply saying so...?
Clearly, there is a dispute - he demonstrated that in his post 13!!

 

You would prefer I did not post the facts on here, Fortunately we have a very clear and open medium here to distribute facts.

I believe all the on lookers have the right to know the state of affairs, they cannot read it in the L&B magazine or on some other sites due to moderation.

If I take the action which may eventually be neccessary at least the readers on here and that is a very wide audience will have seen why.

Thank you all

 

I don't think anyone on here knows "the facts" despite what might be posted by either you Andrew or Martin, I certainly don't! Hence why I'm not saying much!

Would be nice if this could be resolved nice and lovely and we could all, together, focus on rebuilding the L&B.

It is a nice bit of kit btw Andrew...

 

Can't really see the when buying a item of stock that's being disputed.

 

Is this thing for sale or not? And if so, how much?