s160 2253 in NYMR clear out

Just received my latest HR issue though the door to find a small artical of intrest to me on page 29 with the NYMR having a clear out and s160 2253 is included which as far as i know is the only ex LNER s160 in existence and the only ex LNER one in the UK, and even though we have a number of s160's about to come into servise i think this one is quite important and as the NYMR has set 2 months for people to show there interest does anyone know if any railway, group or individual is planning to make a bid for this loco? as i really don't what to see it go fro scrap.
thanks
Patrick

 

Its been available to buy for the last 10yrs and no deal done so either the price was too high or no one wanted to buy it.

s160 1631 at Ruddington in bits also worked in the UK prior to crossing the channel and ending up in Hungary

 

Ah ok, well i knew it was on sale for around 70,000 about 7 years ago. Oh rite well its one of two then. But unless im wrong about the KWVR's Dub Dee these two s160's are the only surviving ww2 large austerity 280's built for that use ?
thanks
Patrick

 

Further research of the history of the S160's at Ruddington indicates that both 2138 and 2364 were allocated to the LNER the former for only a month before being re allocated to the GW for a year, then shipped abroad, but the latter was allocated to Stratford for a year between 1943 and 1944. Both locomotives are incomplete, but there are no plans to dispersed the collected parts of either of them. Meanwhile work progresses steadily on the strip down of 1631 which was allocated to the Great Western, the frame now being ready for lifting from its wheels after stripping brake and spring gear.

 

Glad to hear you are making steady progress Mike

 

Hi Mike
thank you very much for your information as after 3855's first post i did wonder if the earlier locos were in the same boat as 2253, that does knock its significance quite a bit then but i still think its restorable and a valuable candidate and this class of loco does hold a special place im my heart and it is one of 4 (possibly more) genuine ex UK s160's.
thanks all
Patrick

 

Would have thought there would be a place in the NRM for a cosmetically restored S160 and a WD. A couple of projects they could handle in house of genuine historical interest.
But of course the funding is always the issue...

 

If it were to go to the USA in p/ex for an A4, I think most of us would see that as a fair exchange!

 

Amen...

 

Dear All
thank you for the information on this loco, how much interest is there in this type of loco lets say may be not as an individual but as a group would be the best way forward? as from visiting the churnet valley for well over a decade and seeing 5197 and 6046 and talking to there owner Mr Gred Wilson they see reliable and ideal locos for preserved lines? and isnt there a gap in the market for just a steam loco to run for that sake than getting the correct class for the line?
thanks
Patrick

 

Patrick,

You are correct in saying that they are ideal for use on a preserved line.

- Dual braked, the brake systems on 5197 & 6046 are the same as on 46233, 60163 & 4464
- the air pump is very easy to change, we have it down to 30 minutes to an air pump change!
- Rocking grate & hopper ashpan
- easy to oil up, mechanical lubricators, all pivot points are grease lubricated
- large firebox
- very powerful yet surprisingly economical
- tender holds 5500 gallons of water and 8 tons of coal

The thing that a lot of people seem forget is that they played a huge part in the war effort over here and so if we were to back track 70 years you would see lots of A4's, Castles, Duchesses etc and lots of S160's running with them!

Regards

Chris

Churnet Valley Railway MPD

 

Chris,

Not forgetting they have a shorter wheelbase than a Black 5 and also a 'Bogie' tender, very kind to the railway !
Another plus is of course the steel firebox giving comparatively low cost repairs over copper.

Me thinks an ideal loco. for the West Highland extension !!! (Tongue firmly clamped in cheek) So what about it Mr Smith ?

Regards

Andy

 

Would someone please point out all these advantages to the NYMR - I think they're daft for looking to sell 2253!

 

Well if they don't want it they don't want it let it go else ware and be used than rust away, there is a spare boiler for it too some ware at the NYMR too so a good one could be made from the two at a reduced cost. These locos seem to have fallen into the lets get somethings that just needs some paint and can run for a couple of years sector as they were bought in the 80's and early 90's as a quick source of motive power while more expensive restorations were carried out and since most have been left to rot bar the CVR locos and big jim. If it comes to it and no individual wants the loco i would propose to form a group to save her and get it running as i think the last asking price was about £70,000 i think?
thanks
Patrick

 

Not entirely true. It is true that there is a spare boiler for 2253 but it is said to be in poor condition.2253 was but as a ready to run solution to a motive power shortage, and was supposed to have received a full overhaul in Poland as part of the purchase price, including a brand new boiler. I don't think that actually happened, and the quality of the overhaul left a lot to be desired, so although it worked for a good few years it was troublesome throughout that period. I don't think that the intention was ever to run it then dump it, but the NYMR had an obligation to overhaul it it was a cheaper option to buy the loco to relieve itself of the obligation and then store it- buying it was cheaper than overhauling it, although had that been done they might have ended up with a better loco.

The KWVR's example did work for a few years, but I doubt if it did as much work as 2253; I don't know how it fared in terms of reliability, but they certainly haven't rushed it back into service! 5197, in contrast, was overhauled in the UK to UK standards and given that care and attention would seem to be a much better machine, as will 6046 I would expect.

 

The above posts don't suggest a loco worthy of a £70k purchase.
Scrap is substantially less.

Back when the zloty was 15 to a £ this engine would be a substantial bargain and I'm sure NYMR didn't pay that much.
I know a similar sized polish loco would be made operational from Poland for £90k.. Still a bargain, but sadly not an S160.

Maybe ebay would determine its true worth, waiting 10 years for a sale suggests the price is a tad optimistic.

 

But the scrap price of any similar sized engine would presumably be similar, with a premium for the copper firebox where this is what any loco has.

The S160 is on a list of items, most of which are in much worse condition and several only fit for scrap. The heading is therefore general. I am sure that I will not get in trouble with my Board Colleagues for saving there has never been a suggestion that the S160 be scrapped and I am sure there never would be.

When you consider prices have have been paid for out of ticket locos, those with little time remaining before a 10 year inspection is due or reported as being planned to be paid for long stored and very tired locos, you will see that scrap price is the last figure you should be considering when valuing a basically complete steam locomotive.

As for what the NYMR paid, again, this is hardly relevant - I presume if you had owned a house for 20 years or so (I am not saying the last 10 years because in some areas there may not be an enormous gain), that wouldn't mean you were happy to sell for what you paid for it - but I do refer you to 61624's post concerning how the loco became the NYMR's property before implying any aspirations for price are unrealistic.

The NYMR is a charity and as such cannot dispose of assets at undervalue - and must therefore satisfy itself that the price being obtained for sales is the best that can be achieved. For smaller items, that will be scrap but for basically complete locomotives, it clearly will not.

Steven

 

Copper firebox... From Poland ?

 

Apologies if it was not obvious in this heat, but my entire point was that your argument that the scrap price equalled the value would mean all locos of a similar size (actually weight) would only be worth their scrap price. I made no mention of Poland and surely made clear later in the post that I was referring to British locos from the examples which had changed hands at much more than scrap price. The reference to copper fire boxes was to acknowledge that for most British locos, scrap price would be greater due to the value of the copper - but not by the difference to real prices that have paid for out of ticket ex-BR locos!

Steven

 

If she doesn't sell, and if the desire to get rid of her is due to the fact that she is taking up space and has little chance of being overhauled in the foreseeable future, then why not loan her out? She'd be an excellent advert for the NYMR if displayed at Eden Camp, for instance.

That said, if the intention is to free up much-needed space then why is an engine which is fully restored and isn't even on the NYMR being offered for sale at scrap value?